Using Lasting Power of Attorney

bjbyorkshire

Thanks Boo, that’s just what I needed to know.  I do think I ought to get the stamp, print our at least 2 copies of the original for each of us and then have a mahooosive signing session.  If one company don’t send back the certified copy then you pretty much have to start all over again printing, stamping and signing whereas with 2 copies at least you have a back up certified copy.  I am learning so much on this forum, pity I can’t get husband and son to be as interested in it all as I am.

Just a thought…. If either of us became unable to sign the certified copies then son or whichever was dealing with things would have to take the original + a copy to a solicitor as I wouldn’t be able to self certify by that time. 

The lady this morning must have been talking about a Court of protection check or as you say a means tested assessment maybe.  I didn’t think to query what she was telling me until afterwards.  She is certainly having a time with her parents care.  As an ex nurse she lives next door to her parents, mum not too bad but dad incontinent and needing lots of care.  It sure makes you hope for a very quick demise if at all possible.

JGB1955

JGB1955 said:

Keep_pedalling said:

While you have all your faculties you can make your own certified copies.

https://www.gov.uk/power-of-attorney/certify

I would (and did) go for this option.  My three appointees each have a certified copy, with the original being kept in our safe.  You can even buy a stamp to do the job for you.....Lasting Power of Attorney True Copy / Corresponding Stamps 2 Pack – Stamp Design 4U

You don't have to buy the stamp(s).  You can just print out a very small word document with the same wordings, cut it out, then photocopy each page with the physical version of the wording at the bottom (other than the last) then sign them all..  Lots of signing but lots of £ saved!

Gers

PS - I also kept a pdf of the original POA and of certified copy on my iPhone and was able to email it across to one organisation (can't remember which one now) when I was in their offices.  My DM got the POA in 2007 and I gradually took over her financial stuff in 2018. She died last year, before that having the POA was so useful, but it is an important task as great trust is being put into the attorney, something which mustn't be taken lightly. 

If you have other family / siblings then the need to be accurate and responsible must be even greater.  In this board there are many examples of people posting about abuse of their parent's POA by their sibling/s or other family members.  Without being paranoid be transparent.

bjbyorkshire

Yes, I know this is an option but the originals pages don't have any space left at the bottom to put a small word document.  If you use a stamp it is possible to put it to one side and up a bit wherever there is a bit of space, or is this not acceptable?

 I have asked the solicitors office who did our wills, they didn’t do the POA’s, how much it would cost for them to certify 15 copies x 2, she didn’t know but will find out and ring me back.  I don’t expect I will like the price she will quote.  

bjbyorkshire

Thanks Gers, we have no other family which does make appointing Executors and Attorneys somewhat easier but if one or both of them died before me then I just wouldn’t have anyone else to ask to take over such an onerous task.  It really isn’t something that I would ask a friend or neighbour to take on.  It would have to be a solicitor but imagine a solicitor taking the job of executor or attorney on.  They wouldn’t have access to my banking passwords or access to my house even.  I know this must happen sometimes that a person dies and there are no relatives to take on the job of sorting everything out so solicitors would have to send in someone to look for paperwork.  It really doesn’t bear thinking about.

Daniel54

bjbyorkshire said:

Thanks Gers, we have no other family which does make appointing Executors and Attorneys somewhat easier but if one or both of them died before me then I just wouldn’t have anyone else to ask to take over such an onerous task.  It really isn’t something that I would ask a friend or neighbour to take on.  It would have to be a solicitor but imagine a solicitor taking the job of executor or attorney on.  They wouldn’t have access to my banking passwords or access to my house even.  I know this must happen sometimes that a person dies and there are no relatives to take on the job of sorting everything out so solicitors would have to send in someone to look for paperwork.  It really doesn’t bear thinking about.

From this thread we have all had different experiences from different organisations in how they operate registration of an LPA

I had to jump through "know your customer" hoops to obtain the original LPA from my aunt's solicitor ,but registering with Lloyds bank was mainly online and smoothly put in place

It's important to remember that attorneys have to set up their own security procedures ( passwords, phone numbers  etc) so the ones you use currently are both immaterial and a security risk if you set them down anywhere

I have however left with a copy of my LPA  and will details of my current bank and investment accounts ( no security details ),  some of which are online only.

I have a plan to consolidate my bank and investment accounts to make things easier, it's just a matter of getting around to it !

bjbyorkshire

Thanks for adding your experiences Daniel54.  As far as consolidating your accounts goes, I have quite a few different banks with quite a few different accounts set up with each one.  I have re invested monies when they have matured, sometimes with the same bank sometimes with another, all online.  This is so that the accounts mature on different dates and the interest is used for current spending or added to the account for another year or two, whichever gets the most interest.  Consolidating them all would take more than a little time to do and could be out of the Government £85,00 limit per account.

Good planning though to leave an up to date list of accounts with the POA and the will but without the passwords.  Surely the attorney  would be able to leave an account as it is until maturity, same bank, same passwords and just monitor the account on behalf of the donor?  The attorney wouldn’t cancel all the accounts, they would just oversee the running of them and would need the passwords to monitor them.
Thanks

BooJewels

I wouldn't worry about finding clear space on the pages for your stamp/box of text - the ones I have, certified by solicitors, are a bit untidy - they just stamp on each page over the least important bit of content.  As long as it doesn't obliterate any important data.

When you register the LPA with any financial institution as an Attorney, some do set you up with new access, which is sometimes different from what the donor would see as a customer.  You don't just get to log in with the customers details, because you're covered by the LPA - you have to register as an Attorney to be able to access the account.  In some cases, where I was already a customer myself, my father's accounts just appeared in my log in account, alongside my own accounts, as though they were mine.

With Barclays who I manage an account for my Aunt, it is an Attorney access and I think it's different from what I would see if I were a customer myself and it's labelled as something like a "management account on behalf of Mrs Xxxx".    So, as such, the attorney wouldn't need your passwords, as they'd be given separate access in their role as your Attorney.

I don't see being an Attorney as an onerous task - my aunt apologised to my sister and I for causing so much trouble, but I told her that it was an honour to do it for her and to be entrusted with the role.  When you're young, older family members do all sorts to take care of you as you grow up - at their time of need in later life, it's time to step up and pay it back.

My aunt rang tonight, as she'd sold something and wanted to see if the payment had cleared yet - could I log in and have a look, as she won't get her statement for 2 weeks.  Took me 5 minutes and really reassured her.  Well worth my time to know she's not going to fret about it until she gets her statement.

Malthusian

bjbyorkshire said:

Thanks for adding your experiences Daniel54.  As far as consolidating your accounts goes, I have quite a few different banks with quite a few different accounts set up with each one.  I have re invested monies when they have matured, sometimes with the same bank sometimes with another, all online.  This is so that the accounts mature on different dates and the interest is used for current spending or added to the account for another year or two, whichever gets the most interest.  Consolidating them all would take more than a little time to do and could be out of the Government £85,00 limit per account.

There are a couple of options for an attorney wishing to simplify matters without going over the £85k limit: 1) stick the money in NS&I Income Bonds (very little interest, but can hold up to £1 million in a single account with essentially identical security to an FSCS-backed account) or 2) use a "savings platform" that spreads the money around for you.

Leaving them to roll over is another option, but the nature of the savings market is that you could be tying up the donor's money for very little interest in exchange.

Good planning though to leave an up to date list of accounts with the POA and the will but without the passwords.  Surely the attorney  would be able to leave an account as it is until maturity, same bank, same passwords and just monitor the account on behalf of the donor?  The attorney wouldn’t cancel all the accounts, they would just oversee the running of them and would need the passwords to monitor them.

If these are fixed rate savings accounts being left to run to maturity then there shouldn't be any need to monitor them.

The attorney doesn't need the passwords. They just need the POA. If the bank allows attorneys online access the attorney will set their own password. If they don't the attorney will have to manage the account the old fashioned way via phone or post.

If the attorney pretended to be you and used your login, instead of using the POA as they should, they would almost certainly be breaching the terms and conditions of the account and you would risk being held liable for any fraud (even if it was unrelated to the login sharing).

It's not that common for solicitors to be employed as attorneys; there aren't many people with means but no friends or family, and people without means are the domain of Social Services. But it happens, and it's not a big deal for the solicitors, just part of the job. If they need to get into the house and can't they call a locksmith. It's unlikely to be urgent, their client will be safe in a care home somewhere and won't be at risk of being turfed out if the solicitor has to wait a while to find their bank statements.

bjbyorkshire

Thanks BooJewels and Malthusian, they say every day is a school day and also that you are never too old to learn.  Very true.  If you haven't got money you have problems at the end of life and if you do have money then there are different problems.  I know I won't be here to see how hubby and son cope with the set up that I manage for us but I am sure that they will just ask a solicitor to take over and sort the probate etc (at a cost).  I quite enjoy a challenge and this LPA was a challenge but is almost completed. Yesterday I rang the solicitors office who made our wills last year to ask, out of interest mostly, how much they charge to certify 16 pages of an LPA that they did not create.  The office girl said she would find out and come back to me.  She has done so this morning to say that to certify one copy will be £5:00,  so to do both £10:00.  I almost sounded shocked.  I didn't think solicitors did anything for £5:00. I asked whether this included the photocopying of the 16 page document, stamping it and signing and dating it.  She said it did.  Hardly worth buying the stamp is it?

As for the managing of finances,  It is me trying to make things as easy as possible for my attorneys if I become incapable of dealing with the finances, the next stage is do I now start the health a welfare POA's?  It will certainly be much easier now I have done these first two.

I think this thread has been really useful and hope others who are about to start to do their POA's find it helps them too.

Many thanks to all the contributors.