The big fat Electric Vehicle bashing thread.

Herzlos

We all seem to be getting sick of threads being horribly derailed by bashing of EV's, though I think it's also important to address and correct the misinformation and answer any genuine concerns.

But it'd be nice to keep it all in one place so people can still get the information they actually asked for in the relevant threads.

So can we get any questions about EV's in here and we'll try and address them?

Grumpy_chap

This thread harks me back to the first mass imports of the modern, clean motorcycles from Japan and how much the established legacy motorcycle manufacturers scoffed at the idea of clean motorcycles where part of the essence was the oil, noise, grease and dirt for "real men".

Where are we now?

[Deleted User]

Electric cars are still priced out of reach for most ordinary folk who buy used cars outright and run them for a good few years until they fancy something newer or they need replacing.

Ectophile

I have decided that my next car will be electric.  But it will probably be a little runaround for local journeys, and I will keep a bigger fossil fuel powered car for long journeys.  I just don't think the public charging network in this country is up to the job, and nobody (except Tesla) is really doing anything about it.

grumiofoundation

Ectophile said:

I have decided that my next car will be electric.  But it will probably be a little runaround for local journeys, and I will keep a bigger fossil fuel powered car for long journeys.  I just don't think the public charging network in this country is up to the job, and nobody (except Tesla) is really doing anything about it.

If buying a second car electric car (lets say range <100 miles) then driving longer journeys is more time consuming due to frequent stops and the fact you have to stop regularly means you can be forced to wait for chargers. Even then unless you are driving through very rural areas for a long distance I would say the charging infrastructure (i.e. motorway service stations) is still up to the job - and getting better all the time.

If you are buying a new(er) electric car with range of 250+ miles then this would be useable for the vast majority of journeys (and even with the most expensive charging - motorway services - still cheaper than petrol).

[Deleted User]

Deleted_User said:

Electric cars are still priced out of reach for most ordinary folk who buy used cars outright and run them for a good few years until they fancy something newer or they need replacing.

Exactly this.

I get the green credentials of electric cars and accept that EV is a better way forward for the environment but they are out of reach for many money saving minded people. I find that some EV owners become totally blinkered to that. This is a money saving forum. I see people on here talk about how they save £1k-£2k per year in fuel costs by having an EV but are they actually saving that if you are spending more up front to get an EV?

Take my circumstances, 15k miles per year mostly commuting with 1 or 2 people in the car but I need a 7 seater for a number of journeys per month to get all the family in. Plug that into Autotrader and the cheapest EV is £27k and is actually a van with a top speed of 84mph. So I filter for cars and I get a Tesla Model S for £45k. I would absolutely drive and own one, no doubt about it if I could afford it.

But my budget is a quite reasonable £10k to own outright and that is what I spent in January on a dirty diesel that gives 45+mpg and meets all the above requirements. So I've saved between £17k and £35k minus the £2k extra to pump diesel into it - not that I could afford more without finance + interest.

So let's say I forget the 7 seats, what have I got for £10k, less than 80k miles, less than 8 years old on Autotrader that is EV - ie same as what I bought except for 7 seats.

A grant total of 22 cars to choose from, 4 are a tiny Renault Zoe, filtered out - so 18 to choose from. The rest are Nissan Leaf, one is Cat S so I'll exclude that - 17 cars in the whole country to pick from. All of them are 24 kWh with according to owners, a real world of about 55-75 miles range on the motorway.

I do a minimum 50 miles per day, that is just to close too the bone, and then the thought getting home from work with just 5 miles range and getting a call out / family need and having to waiting 4-8 hours before I can go anywhere just doesn't work for me. I do a 300 mile journey in a day every few weeks - that would be impossible.

So I'm happily saving more money than any EV owner and getting exactly the size and type of car that I need right now.

So I'm waiting for a 2nd hand Tesla Model S for £10k then I'll happily be an EV owner.

Petriix

Deleted_User said:

Electric cars are still priced out of reach for most ordinary folk who buy used cars outright and run them for a good few years until they fancy something newer or they need replacing.

I've found it quite the opposite. Running a brand new EV has saved me thousands vs keeping my old diesel car on the road. 

[Deleted User]

Petriix said:

Deleted_User said:

Electric cars are still priced out of reach for most ordinary folk who buy used cars outright and run them for a good few years until they fancy something newer or they need replacing.

I've found it quite the opposite. Running a brand new EV has saved me thousands vs keeping my old diesel car on the road. 

Think you missed the point. People who buy sensible used cars probably don't or want to spend on a brand new petrol/diesel car never mind the inflated price of a brand new EV.

grumiofoundation

Deleted_User said:

Petriix said:

Deleted_User said:

Electric cars are still priced out of reach for most ordinary folk who buy used cars outright and run them for a good few years until they fancy something newer or they need replacing.

I've found it quite the opposite. Running a brand new EV has saved me thousands vs keeping my old diesel car on the road. 

Think you missed the point. People who buy sensible used cars probably don't or want to spend on a brand new petrol/diesel car never mind the inflated price of a brand new EV.

A second hand electric car is an option for many people - you seem to have left this option out of your comment.

[Deleted User]

grumiofoundation said:

Deleted_User said:

Petriix said:

Deleted_User said:

Electric cars are still priced out of reach for most ordinary folk who buy used cars outright and run them for a good few years until they fancy something newer or they need replacing.

I've found it quite the opposite. Running a brand new EV has saved me thousands vs keeping my old diesel car on the road. 

Think you missed the point. People who buy sensible used cars probably don't or want to spend on a brand new petrol/diesel car never mind the inflated price of a brand new EV.

A second hand electric car is an option for many people - you seem to have left this option out of your comment.

tallmansix has already explained above why second hand EV are probably not a suitable option for many.

iwb100

The thing is it’s cost of buying that’s prohibitive. People have cars that they need. I am getting a 7 seater because I need it. What choice would I have electric for sensible money?

I think the other major barrier is the network. Electric dealers I’ve spoken to who have had EVs a while even say that it’s getting worse with respect to charging as more EVs are sold and the stats show it’s becoming drastically worse. The sorts of trips families have to do in the holidays on long motorways journeys with kids need a charging network that can be analogous or as close as possible to filling up at the service station. Or a range that makes charging unnecessary. So you need affordable EVs that have real world range using the heater or air con and music etc of 400 miles. Or thereabouts. Or you need a car that charges in 5-10 minutes and enough chargers at service stations etc to satiate any demand. Imagine queuing for a charger that takes say half an hour and you have two cars in front of you. Nobody on earth will tolerate that.

To make EVs work we needed a huge infrastructure program that started years ago to secure land and reconfigure existing operations to allow massive increase in charging points. To really work you need every parking space at every service station to be a charger. And they all need to work.

That’s the challenge. Yet as said above nobody is doing a thing about it.