The big fat Electric Vehicle bashing thread.

Martyn1981

[Deleted User] said:

Petriix said:

[Deleted User] said:

Petriix said:

Then we had to find somewhere to charge. Turns out there are charging points on all the streets round here. A quick check on Zap-Map and we found one just one street away from where we're staying. Had to download an app and load up a credit card but it started working right away. Parking is free overnight but the charge will cost about £10.

Did you tie up a charging point by leaving your car in it overnight or just for the charging time
?

It was a 3kW charger so ideal for overnight. 

For an overnight stay then ok but I'm guessing 15 hours to recharge your 175 miles - that's more than just overnight, if I plugged it in just before bed time at 10pm then the car wouldn't be ready until 1pm the next day.

So wouldn't be possible to use one of those chargers for a day trip to Brighton as many people do unless you arrive at say 7am and left at 10pm but you wouldn't have use of your car all day - I gather most of the chargers are like this from scanning the maps with only a few high speed ones scattered around.

I don't understand your reasoning. The lower speed street chargers are for more regular, longer and slower charging, bear in mind the average daily mileage in the UK is about 20 miles. If parking when you get home, and possibly some restrictions before 7pm (due to peak demand), then at 8am that's 13hrs of charging, in just one session.

Regarding Petrix, he doesn't need to have a full charge, as other faster charging options will be available on the return journey (mention was made previously), so this charging is a great way to add some (if not all) charge to the car.

Your day trip example is the same, arrive, plug-in and park (you'd need to park anyway), and get some charge during the day.

Folk like to suggest that charging during the journey is difficult, but now we have concerns about charging at the journey's end, Shirley the two are complimentary, so undermine the negativity about charging, rather than trying to 'knock' them individually, without seeing the bigger picture.

Martyn1981

Grumpy_chap said:

Martyn1981 said:

so little NVH.   

What's NVH?

Noise, vibration, harshness. One of the measures for reviewing cars. Another reason why BEV's are 'easier' and more relaxing to drive.

Sorry, thought I'd get away with that on the motoring forum.

Grumpy_chap

Martyn1981 said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Martyn1981 said:

so little NVH.   

What's NVH?

Noise, vibration, harshness. One of the measures for reviewing cars. Another reason why BEV's are 'easier' and more relaxing to drive.

Sorry, thought I'd get away with that on the motoring forum.

Thank you.

That is what I thought but wanted to be sure before asking the real question.

Is there actually less NVH noticeable when driving an EV at speed on highway?  At speed, doesn't most of the NVH come from road imperfections and wind?  The suspension of an EV works the same as the suspension of an ICE.

I agree less NVH in town for an EV compared to ICE.

My brother has an i3 and says it is silent and lovely at low speed but just the same as any car once travelling along.

Petriix

[Deleted User] said:

Petriix said:

[Deleted User] said:

Petriix said:

Then we had to find somewhere to charge. Turns out there are charging points on all the streets round here. A quick check on Zap-Map and we found one just one street away from where we're staying. Had to download an app and load up a credit card but it started working right away. Parking is free overnight but the charge will cost about £10.

Did you tie up a charging point by leaving your car in it overnight or just for the charging time
?

It was a 3kW charger so ideal for overnight. 

For an overnight stay then ok but I'm guessing 15 hours to recharge your 175 miles - that's more than just overnight, if I plugged it in just before bed time at 10pm then the car wouldn't be ready until 1pm the next day.

So wouldn't be possible to use one of those chargers for a day trip to Brighton as many people do unless you arrive at say 7am and left at 10pm but you wouldn't have use of your car all day - I gather most of the chargers are like this from scanning the maps with only a few high speed ones scattered around.

There are plenty of other charging options. We'll pop it on at Tesco while we go to the beach this evening then probably top up to full out the window where we're staying tonight.

The parking is limited to permit holders or just 2 hours during the day so overnight until 9am is the ideal time for visitors. Then you move on. In the long run they'll need to extend charging to most (or all) of the bays on those terraced streets. For now there's plenty of choice for the number of people needing to charge. 

Who is doing a 175 mile day (350 mile round) trip to Brighton? If you're coming that far then you'll probably be staying. A single 40 minute rapid charge will get you back to 80% so it's hardly an issue. If we set off for home on 50% we'll be able to stop at Thurrock with its bank of chargers or the Instavolts round the corner. 

Petriix

Grumpy_chap said:

Martyn1981 said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Martyn1981 said:

so little NVH.   

What's NVH?

Noise, vibration, harshness. One of the measures for reviewing cars. Another reason why BEV's are 'easier' and more relaxing to drive.

Sorry, thought I'd get away with that on the motoring forum.

Thank you.

That is what I thought but wanted to be sure before asking the real question.

Is there actually less NVH noticeable when driving an EV at speed on highway?  At speed, doesn't most of the NVH come from road imperfections and wind?  The suspension of an EV works the same as the suspension of an ICE.

I agree less NVH in town for an EV compared to ICE.

My brother has an i3 and says it is silent and lovely at low speed but just the same as any car once travelling along.

It's an enormous difference. Driving long distances in an EV is massively less fatiguing. Engines are essentially a series of explosions which vibrate you the whole time. My daughter commented about how it was vibrating her bottom when she went in a diesel vehicle for the first time in over a year.

yessuz

DB1904 said:

Petriix said:

DB1904 said:

Petriix said:

[Deleted User] said:

Petriix said:

Then we had to find somewhere to charge. Turns out there are charging points on all the streets round here. A quick check on Zap-Map and we found one just one street away from where we're staying. Had to download an app and load up a credit card but it started working right away. Parking is free overnight but the charge will cost about £10.

Did you tie up a charging point by leaving your car in it overnight or just for the charging time
?

It was a 3kW charger so ideal for overnight. 

Even if it wasn't sounds like you decided to park all night. 

That's the whole idea with destination chargers. You charge while you're parked. Rapid chargers are for charging then moving on. Slow chargers are for leaving the car at.

Those of us who think about other EV drivers use the Need to Charge app so anyone who needs to charge can contact us. 

But for how long?

The way people are in this country those spots will be their parking spot for the duration of their stay and sod anyone else's need to charge.

Do the maths?
If you need 30 kwh to charge it  take 10-9 hrs on 3.6 kw charger or 4.5 hrs on 7kw charger

Thrugelmir

Benny2020 said:

All of the materials in Batteries are increasing in price substantially so how will battery prices fall?
I am invested heavily in Lithium, Nickel and Copper.
A few weeks ago the world actually ran out of stocks of Nickel and trading was halted after a massive spike in price, even now there is barely any buffer between mines and supply.

An EV utilises around 3 times the amount of copper than an ICE.  While the vehicle is mechanically simply.  The base cost of raw materials and components used in manufacture is higher. 

Benny2020

Nickel actually ran out a few weeks ago, loads more mines needed.

Martyn1981

Thrugelmir said:

Benny2020 said:

All of the materials in Batteries are increasing in price substantially so how will battery prices fall?
I am invested heavily in Lithium, Nickel and Copper.
A few weeks ago the world actually ran out of stocks of Nickel and trading was halted after a massive spike in price, even now there is barely any buffer between mines and supply.

An EV utilises around 3 times the amount of copper than an ICE.  While the vehicle is mechanically simply.  The base cost of raw materials and components used in manufacture is higher. 

Including FF's and end of life recycling, EV's are estimated to use between 300 and 400 times less material than an ICEV.


Edit to add articles on the research:-

Mining for electric car batteries ‘hundreds of times’ better than petrol car emission cycles

Transport and Environment (T&E), an NGO that looks into the impact of transport on the environment, has released a new study that looks to compare emissions from raw materials to produce electric cars versus gas-powered vehicles:

Fossil fuel cars make 'hundreds of times' more waste than electric cars

Only about 30kg of raw material will be lost over the lifecycle of a lithium ion battery used in electric cars once recycling is taken into account, compared with 17,000 litres of oil, according to analysis by Transport & Environment (T&E) seen by the Guardian.

Benny2020

I can estimate anything but it won't make it true.
As an investor in metals i can see what is happening to supply and prices.