The big fat Electric Vehicle bashing thread.

Martyn1981

Grumpy_chap said:

Martyn1981 said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Martyn1981 said:

so little NVH.   

What's NVH?

Noise, vibration, harshness. One of the measures for reviewing cars. Another reason why BEV's are 'easier' and more relaxing to drive.

Sorry, thought I'd get away with that on the motoring forum.

Thank you.

That is what I thought but wanted to be sure before asking the real question.

Is there actually less NVH noticeable when driving an EV at speed on highway?  At speed, doesn't most of the NVH come from road imperfections and wind?  The suspension of an EV works the same as the suspension of an ICE.

I agree less NVH in town for an EV compared to ICE.

My brother has an i3 and says it is silent and lovely at low speed but just the same as any car once travelling along.

As Petrix says, massive difference, with the Tesla's I'd suggest it feels like you are driving about 30mph slower. I mean this genuinely, not as some sort of snobbish comment, but driving a Tesla at 70mph on a motorway is 'difficult' because you feel like you are going too slow.

Bear in mind that you have the bulk of the weight very, very low down, and spread evenly across the whole vehicle. Sorry to harp on about Tesla, but I just know lots of bits and bobs, and they decided late 2020 to doubleglaze the front windows (driver and passenger), because with BEV's they are so much quieter, you become more aware of tyre and wind noise. If you look at some BEV's, the Nissan Leaf is a great example, they tend to have raised wings or light clusters, which actually help to direct the windflow better over the door mirrors, both for efficiency and noise. The NVH from an ICE hides a multitude of sins.

Only my opinion, but I suspect one of the biggest wins will be for van drivers, since those vehicles for cost and weight reasons have minimal soundproofing. Driving for hours every day with a diesel vibration and noise is quite tiring. BEV truck and bus drivers have also reported that it's more relaxing and less tiring. And slight digression, but I recall a police assessment in the UK after testing some high speed BEV's for pursuit use, drivers found they were less stressed on arrival thanks to the re-gen working in conjunction with hard braking. Personally, I'm quite disappointed these days if I have to use the brake pedal during a journey.

Grumpy_chap

Martyn1981 said:

As Petrix says, massive difference, with the Tesla's I'd suggest it feels like you are driving about 30mph slower. I mean this genuinely, not as some sort of snobbish comment, but driving a Tesla at 70mph on a motorway is 'difficult' because you feel like you are going too slow.

Thank you.  I am not trying to be awkward but just to understand.  

How much of that "feeling slow" is because of changing from an old car to a new car? 
If I swapped from my 2007 Focus to a Tesla or to an A4, I would see both as being nearly silent. 
The same happened when I swapped from my Metro many years back to a 6-month old Rover 414 - it was so smooth (comparatively) a couple of times I even tried starting the car when it was already running because I thought it had stalled.

Wind tunnel design is not exclusive to EV's.

Features such as double-glazing are also not exclusive to EV's.  Not common because the cost and weight impact, but please consider the Citroen C6
https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/features/top-10s/top-10-great-citroen-innovations/

Martyn1981

Grumpy_chap said:

Martyn1981 said:

As Petrix says, massive difference, with the Tesla's I'd suggest it feels like you are driving about 30mph slower. I mean this genuinely, not as some sort of snobbish comment, but driving a Tesla at 70mph on a motorway is 'difficult' because you feel like you are going too slow.

Thank you.  I am not trying to be awkward but just to understand.  

How much of that "feeling slow" is because of changing from an old car to a new car? 
If I swapped from my 2007 Focus to a Tesla or to an A4, I would see both as being nearly silent. 
The same happened when I swapped from my Metro many years back to a 6-month old Rover 414 - it was so smooth (comparatively) a couple of times I even tried starting the car when it was already running because I thought it had stalled.

Wind tunnel design is not exclusive to EV's.

Features such as double-glazing are also not exclusive to EV's.  Not common because the cost and weight impact, but please consider the Citroen C6
https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/features/top-10s/top-10-great-citroen-innovations/

Hiya, no probs it's an interesting subject.

Starting at the end, you may have misunderstood me about wind flow. What I was pointing out is that due to the large reduction in noise from the ICE, the wind noise actually becomes more noticeable with BEV's, hence the need to address it. As I said, the NVH from an ICE hides many sins. I've noticed locally, now that Cardiff has a fleet of BEV buses, that when they drive past (20-30mph) instead of hearing the diesel engine making lots of noise there's just a quiet electric hum, so the main noise is actually from the tyres as they roll along. It's a very pleasant if somewhat surreal experience. Have to add that friends who use the buses were shocked at the change when the route went electric, what they were describing was the massive reduction in NVH.

Yes, newer cars have quieter engines, and of course expensive ICEV's employ a lot of noise suppression material / insulation, but obviously, having a very quiet electric motor is far, far quieter than an 'explosive' ICE. At low speeds the BEV is virtually silent, unless it has a noise maker, ours makes a silly electric buzz/whine when reversing to warn people.

This may sound extremely odd, but being in a BEV in a traffic jam, with just crawling vehicles, is actually almost pleasant, virtually silent, and if it wasn't for all the emissions from the other vehicles you could have the windows down and enjoy it. Again, one-pedal driving makes the experience better. Plus of course you aren't using fuel for idling, or high rpm 1st gear driving*.


*I'll probably get called out on that since all** BEV driving is actually high rpm 1st gear driving, but you know what I mean. Actually, is direct drive called first gear? I don't know, it's also reverse gear by turning the motor the other way .... I may have gone down a rabbit hole.

**A few BEV's have two gears, but one seems simpler. And some conversions have kept gearboxes for simplicity.

Petriix

I recommend taking a test drive in an EV just to experience the difference. It makes you realise how much you actually put up with just for an ICE to function.

The entire concept of having the engine running constantly, trying to marry up the revs with the speed of the wheels using the gearbox and clutch. The elaborate fuel delivery system, mixing it with air. The turbo spinning up. The exhaust gasses. The cooling... All that noise. It all just seems so ridiculous when you see how elegant EVs are in comparison.

I understand there are people who think EVs are soulless and enjoy all that revving. Presumably the same people riled against ignition keys, preferring the hand-crank method of starting the engine.

Benny2020

And that's why EVs are so cheap

Grumpy_chap

 

Petriix said:

I recommend taking a test drive in an EV 

That was something I truly was seeking to do in January 2020 but the availability then for cars to test drive was 9 months.  Then COVID arrived so nothing could progress and now my mileage is rather similar to that of @dipsomaniac so changing car seems like a poor choice.

The intervening period when I have not changed my car has meant the choice of cars with sufficient battery capacity is now far greater, which is a good thing.  The costs for all cars has gone to a silly place, which is a bad thing, but I assume there will be a market correction at some point.

Obviously, had I bought a car in 2020, I'd be half way towards thinking it would be nice to change again, so a massive saving there.

The thing on EV's is you have to still want an EV specifically - you can't just chose a car and get the "happens to be EV" version.  Indeed, there are several body types that really simply aren't available and other where the choice is highly restricted.  Hopefully manufacturers will swiftly move to address these gaps.

Ibrahim5

All this googling electric cars means I have just been sent an advert to buy a Volvo C40 electric. Only £799 a month. I would save £50 a month on diesel though. Difficult decision.

yessuz

Benny2020 said:

Nickel actually ran out a few weeks ago, loads more mines needed.

You sure about running out?
Industry I work in, uses a very specific metal composition, which is heavy on Nickel. There's been a spike in LME in end of March but stabilized ant went down in past few weeks. Therefore sorry but your reasoning.. sounds like a full of crap.

There's been a very good article in end of march about basically one chinese trader who had to cover huge short position hence massive market manipulation and nothing else

yessuz

Ibrahim5 said:

All this googling electric cars means I have just been sent an advert to buy a Volvo C40 electric. Only £799 a month. I would save £50 a month on diesel though. Difficult decision.

You sure mayhs checks out? I mean regarding fuel savings? Also did you take other services into account?

[Deleted User]

Ibrahim5 said:

All this googling electric cars means I have just been sent an advert to buy a Volvo C40 electric. Only £799 a month. I would save £50 a month on diesel though. Difficult decision.

You can also spend £799 a month on an ice car. Your posts bring nothing to this discussion.