Asbestos

Section62

Noneforit999 said:

Asbestos is only an issue if you have to remove it....

That isn't correct.

Asbestos containing materials are an issue if anything is done to them which results in a release of fibres.  Removal is one way in which fibres could be released.  Sawing, drilling, scraping are examples of others.

The HSE produce excellent guidance on the risks associated with asbestos.  It never ceases to amaze me why folks don't just point people in the direction of the official guidance rather than propounding their personal theories of how asbestos is 'safe' in any given situation.....

https://www.hse.gov.uk/asbestos/essentials/index.htm

TripleH

My uncle died of lung cancer as a result of asbestosis. He was a very fit and healthy individual.

My aunt suggested it didn't help that he had good lungs as he inhaled the particles deeply into his lungs. (That was anecdotal I am not a medical practitioner in any way and there might be no truth in it).

To put it in context, my uncle was in a very confined space laying cabling with asbestos particles (think air vents type size and confinement) without protective equipment. His risks were far higher than the average person would ever encounter.

To add, I'm not saying it's safe, or unsafe, just that my uncle was unknowingly put at a far higher risk than most people.

Section62

F37A said:

user1977 said:

F37A said:

user1977 said:

OP, this is your third thread about asbestos - is there a reason why this is such a concern to you over every other aspect of your purchase?

I have a health issue related to lungs. And well the diseases you can get from asbestos are life threatening. What if you get cancer from it.  

There are plenty of other carcinogenic things in and around your property. If the asbestos is embedded in the artex, how is it going to get into your lungs?

Builder could come round to install smoke alarm or fix leak from bathroom upstairs. Ceiling could get wet - this is disturbance? and any drilling could lead to dust particles. Builder could start drilling around wherever. Smoke then inhalation risk and if could stay in the air for many months. I'd have to move out. Can't do any works to my home - what if something breaks and I need to do works. An extension would be a pain. 

Asbestos is a risk, but one you can manage.

You've already had some testing done.  People have assumed that means artex, but 'asbestos in the ceiling' could mean other things, including for example AIB.  Do you have confirmation the issue is just with artex coatings?

Management means knowing where the risk is, how much of a risk there is, and having a plan of what to do about it.  If the issue is only with artex then the solution is fairly straightforward (if you don't want nice flat ceilings) - you simply instruct the builder not to drill holes etc in the asbestos containing ceilings without following the HSE guidance.  Take control of the situation yourself, rather than worrying about what might happen.  If that isn't an option then employ a professional asbestos removal company to deal with the ceilings either by removing the artex, or removing the whole ceiling.  It isn't necessarily a cheap option, but in the context of the cost of a house purchase it may be a small price to pay for peace of mind... (and not leaving a legacy of hidden asbestos under plaster skim for some other person to drill/saw into).

user1977

F37A said:

user1977 said:

F37A said:

user1977 said:

OP, this is your third thread about asbestos - is there a reason why this is such a concern to you over every other aspect of your purchase?

I have a health issue related to lungs. And well the diseases you can get from asbestos are life threatening. What if you get cancer from it.  

There are plenty of other carcinogenic things in and around your property. If the asbestos is embedded in the artex, how is it going to get into your lungs?

Builder could come round to install smoke alarm or fix leak from bathroom upstairs. Ceiling could get wet - this is disturbance? and any drilling could lead to dust particles. Builder could start drilling around wherever. Smoke then inhalation risk and if could stay in the air for many months. I'd have to move out. Can't do any works to my home - what if something breaks and I need to do works. An extension would be a pain. 

Bear in mind that any asbestos in artex is at a tiny proportion (about 1% I think) - it might be different if we were talking about something made of asbestos (e.g. insulation in sheet form). Yes, those examples would potentially cause some dust, but the risk is more for those doing that sort of work daily rather than the residents having minuscule exposure for a very short period.

You've obviously managed to rationalise other environmental factors which could have tiny risks to you, so you might want to consider how you've done that and whether you can do the same about asbestos. But if you're particularly concerned about asbestos then I would suggest you buy something built after it stopped being used. Any older property might have asbestos hidden away (e.g. somebody could have skimmed over old artex).

F37A

babyblade41 said:

user1977 said:

OP, this is your third thread about asbestos - is there a reason why this is such a concern to you over every other aspect of your purchase?

If this is such a major worry (unfounded in my humble opinion) but probably better to look at something a lot newer & look up before looking around.

As for the mesothelioma cancer my late mother died from , it was most probably caused by hand washing my late Dads overalls. He was a lorry mechanic in the army then afterwards for a while & brake pads were made with asbestos .

Strange how she died of it but Dad didn't 

Thanks for sharing. I have a lung issue so particularly careful with this. But alot of these types of properties with widespread asbestos knocking about

Section62

babyblade41 said:

As for the mesothelioma cancer my late mother died from , it was most probably caused by hand washing my late Dads overalls. He was a lorry mechanic in the army then afterwards for a while & brake pads were made with asbestos .

Strange how she died of it but Dad didn't 

There's still a lot we don't know about mesothelioma and other absestos-related disease.  Which is why comments about snorting the stuff are really unhelpful.

For every story about a person who worked in clouds of asbestos from age 14 and was fit as a fiddle when they died at 120, there will be a story about a person who believed they had only minimal contact with asbestos-containing materials.

There is a demonstrated genetic link (the BAP1 mutation) to a predisosition to mesothelioma.  To my non-medical mind genetics would be a good way of make sense of how two people with exposure to the same type of asbestos can have very different health outcomes.

Until we know more about it, it just makes sense to take precautions and reject the bravado of "it's safe" and "it won't hurt you" etc etc.  The risks can be managed down to safer levels by just being sensible and following the guidance.

babyblade41

I think every house I've ever bought has had either artex or sheet asbestos on out buildings & the like.  We are moving to a plot of land that has a storage shed that has an asbestos roof

I sort of put the risks into different categories.. artex ceilings , low to non existent risk  just overboard.. the amount in artex is very minuscule to worry about...dodgy wiring would concern me a lot more 

Sheet asbestos on where we are going I will put into low risk as a company will come in with enclosed skips & remove it 

Again the wiring is more of a problem.

Possibly OP would be better looking at much newer properties , 2000 & later . Minimises the risk of Artex being present 

I know the OP is financially  limited but really probably wait a lot longer building up a bigger pot if it is a massive problem 

As for Mesothilioma it normally lies dormant for many years , before my Mum got diagnosed with it , 15 years previous she had,  & recovered from Pancreatic cancer after having a Whipple operation..she enjoyed her life & never worried about anything  & died at 79 .

Sometimes we all take risks, just have to mitigate those against what we want ..I think artex in a ceiling really is a minimal one 

andy444

Don't know what part of the country you live in OP but if you have a serious lung issue then you should check that you don't buy a house in an area which is known to release radon.

F37A

andy444 said:

Don't know what part of the country you live in OP but if you have a serious lung issue then you should check that you don't buy a house in an area which is known to release radon.

thanks will look out for that

babyblade41

Radon is pretty common where I live