Big power off 10pm tonight

MattMattMattUK

Deleted_User said:

jimjames said:

Funny how people will share stuff like this on social media but won't actually switch off devices or change their habits to save energy and money

It's not about saving it's about making some sort of protest because of rising costs. When you have a 50% rise and possible 40% rise in Oct its understandable more people will get frustrated 

The thing is why would I protest about rising costs?

Would I rather the costs were lower? Of Course.
Do I understand why they are what they are? Yes.
Is there anything the government can realistically do that makes any net difference? No.

The government can subsidise energy, which needs to be funded from taxes or borrowing, both have wider economic and personal implications. Tax me, it cost me more, raise VAT, things cost more, tax energy generators and exploration companies, they issue smaller dividends and invest less, borrow more and the debt and debt repayments grow. Unfortunately there is no "free" money to be had, the sooner people accept that the government is not going to bail them out and plan accordingly the better. 

[Deleted User]

MattMattMattUK said:

Deleted_User said:

jimjames said:

Funny how people will share stuff like this on social media but won't actually switch off devices or change their habits to save energy and money

It's not about saving it's about making some sort of protest because of rising costs. When you have a 50% rise and possible 40% rise in Oct its understandable more people will get frustrated 

The thing is why would I protest about rising costs?

Would I rather the costs were lower? Of Course.
Do I understand why they are what they are? Yes.
Is there anything the government can realistically do that makes any net difference? No.

The government can subsidise energy, which needs to be funded from taxes or borrowing, both have wider economic and personal implications. Tax me, it cost me more, raise VAT, things cost more, tax energy generators and exploration companies, they issue smaller dividends and invest less, borrow more and the debt and debt repayments grow. Unfortunately there is no "free" money to be had, the sooner people accept that the government is not going to bail them out and plan accordingly the better. 

No one is telling you that you must protest we are all individuals and to some they feel like protesting. Remember we all arrive at the same point in time with different perspectives and lived experiences.

It's up to the Gov to stimulate growth and ensure they meet the needs of the citizens and we certainly don't live in a country where you must not criticise the GOV.

Also don't worry people are getting on with trying to sort themselves while they wish their Gov can do more. While you might feel you're in a stronger place to get on with your life without Gov helping you please be aware that through others protesting and criticising their GOV you have been benefiting from it indirectly

MWT

Deleted_User said:

...please be aware that through others protesting and criticising their GOV you have been benefiting from it indirectly

Just to be even-handed, while protesting, please be aware that many others do not appreciate the disruption and waste of time and resources than most protests cause, so no, we don't feel like there is an indirect benefit...

[Deleted User]

MWT said:

Deleted_User said:

...please be aware that through others protesting and criticising their GOV you have been benefiting from it indirectly

Just to be even-handed, while protesting, please be aware that many others do not appreciate the disruption and waste of time and resources than most protests cause, so no, we don't feel like there is an indirect benefit...

Well history is vast and we don’t always get the benefits of what others strive to get the Gov to do but sometimes we do. That’s how democracy works 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

MWT said:

Deleted_User said:

...please be aware that through others protesting and criticising their GOV you have been benefiting from it indirectly

Just to be even-handed, while protesting, please be aware that many others do not appreciate the disruption and waste of time and resources than most protests cause, so no, we don't feel like there is an indirect benefit...

Divide and conquer tactics displayed well with this comment, grant vast so-called freedoms and let the masses argue over whether one freedom is infringing on the freedoms of others or not so we bicker among ourselves rather than questioning whether we are actually free or not. 

GingerTim

Isn't the point of protest to be effective? This manifestly isn't.

[Deleted User]

GingerTim said:

Isn't the point of protest to be effective? This manifestly isn't.

You might well be right. A protest is only effective when it causes the Gov to pay attention and has the numbers willing to actually put themselves out there and risk what they have. Clearly sitting in your house and turning your power off for 10mins doesn't exactly do that 
 

MattMattMattUK

Deleted_User said:

MattMattMattUK said:

Deleted_User said:

jimjames said:

Funny how people will share stuff like this on social media but won't actually switch off devices or change their habits to save energy and money

It's not about saving it's about making some sort of protest because of rising costs. When you have a 50% rise and possible 40% rise in Oct its understandable more people will get frustrated 

The thing is why would I protest about rising costs?

Would I rather the costs were lower? Of Course.
Do I understand why they are what they are? Yes.
Is there anything the government can realistically do that makes any net difference? No.

The government can subsidise energy, which needs to be funded from taxes or borrowing, both have wider economic and personal implications. Tax me, it cost me more, raise VAT, things cost more, tax energy generators and exploration companies, they issue smaller dividends and invest less, borrow more and the debt and debt repayments grow. Unfortunately there is no "free" money to be had, the sooner people accept that the government is not going to bail them out and plan accordingly the better. 

No one is telling you that you must protest we are all individuals and to some they feel like protesting. Remember we all arrive at the same point in time with different perspectives and lived experiences.

Of course no one is forcing me to protest, but in general it seems that there are a lot of people who are protesting because they seem to think that there is a huge pile of free* money waiting to make their lives nicer. 

*by free, they mean they want someone else to pay.

Deleted_User said:
It's up to the Gov to stimulate growth and ensure they meet the needs of the citizens and we certainly don't live in a country where you must not criticise the GOV.

I am all for criticising the government, I do it regularly, there is more to criticise them about than any other government in UK history, but turning a few lights off then on again is not a protest, is not in any way effective and the complaint largely ignores the reality of the world, namely that despite Johnson thinking the sun shines out of his behind, he does not have a source of energy that can be used to power the UK for free.

Deleted_User said:
Also don't worry people are getting on with trying to sort themselves while they wish their Gov can do more. While you might feel you're in a stronger place to get on with your life without Gov helping you please be aware that through others protesting and criticising their GOV you have been benefiting from it indirectly

I wish the government would do more in a lot of ways, I wish we had a society much more like that of Scandinavia, higher taxes but far better services and yes I know that would mean I would pay more tax myself. The issue with the UK is what it has always been, around 90% of the population think that they should not have to pay and that "someone else" should pay to subsidise their lifestyle. The UK actually has the most progressive tax system in Europe, the bottom two thirds of earners have the lowest level of income taxation in the EU (the top third have the fifth highest), we have a low level of VAT compared to the rest of the EU (and yes I know we left). We also have very high national and personal debt. 

The energy situation can be solved in the medium to long term, there is little that can be done in the short term (subsidies are a net cost). The government's energy plan is awful, it will not solve the problems, nor guarantee energy security, but the reality is I am fairly certain that the UK population are unwilling go fund the kind of investment needed to solve the issue, so the government having a useless plan is irrelevant. 

Thrugelmir

Deleted_User said:

GingerTim said:

Isn't the point of protest to be effective? This manifestly isn't.

You might well be right. A protest is only effective when it causes the Gov to pay attention and has the numbers willing to actually put themselves out there and risk what they have. Clearly sitting in your house and turning your power off for 10mins doesn't exactly do that 
 

Perhaps if everyone was more productive and constructive. Then we'd all be in a better place. Everybody seems to want a free lunch. While elsewhere in the world there's plenty of people who'll happily work hard to better themselves. Seems as if there's one of those pivotal crunch moments on the horizon. That people might see if they lifted their heads up rather than staring endlessly at their phones.. 

tghe-retford

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

MWT said:

Deleted_User said:

...please be aware that through others protesting and criticising their GOV you have been benefiting from it indirectly

Just to be even-handed, while protesting, please be aware that many others do not appreciate the disruption and waste of time and resources than most protests cause, so no, we don't feel like there is an indirect benefit...

Divide and conquer tactics displayed well with this comment, grant vast so-called freedoms and let the masses argue over whether one freedom is infringing on the freedoms of others or not so we bicker among ourselves rather than questioning whether we are actually free or not. 

Every protest will infringe on another person's freedoms. Even if it is a single person holding a placard in a field in the middle of nowhere. Every criticism of someone can lead to offence and the hurt feelings of either the person being critiqued or to another person on their behalf (go see a social media dogpile if you want to see that in action).

There are proposed laws and reforms going through Parliament which will make it practically impossible to protest or critique because you will be required to take everyone else's feelings, potential to be offended or disruption into account. Failure to do so could land you in trouble with the law. It's partially why you're seeing comment sections being moderated or withdrawn, political and religious boards removed and more censorship on social media in anticipation. And it will only increase when the bills becomes acts and the reforms are implemented.

In the case of this ineffective protest (because so few did it), should it have been successful, the energy companies and the grid would be affected if it worked because they would a) bring down the grid and cause a potential power cut which would b) reduce income generation for the energy companies. People would be offended at the protest because it would have coincided with the conclusion of The Masters tournament or whatever else they were doing before bedtime.