Garage has aquired car in a misleading way!

motorguy

dipsomaniac said:

I haven't been to a auction for 10 years so am assuming buyers have a lot more protection these days judging by what you are saying.  

10 years ago the vast majority of cars were sold as seen.  A few were sold with a test drive or no major faults.  Auctions were the vehicle  traders used to get rid of faulty/un- desirable cars.

As i and others have said, regular trade buyers have quite a bit of clout with auction houses, so its never just a matter of dumping stuff through auction risk free.  

We rarely put cars through auctions but when we did we did always describe them fairly.  

I'm always of the belief in life treat people as you'd want to be treated.  

motorguy

jimjames said:

Ibrahim5 said:

It's really funny. People in the motor trade don't understand what honest means. She was told her car was worthless scrap. Why didn't they say they would try and mend it or source another engine? Why tell her a load of lies?

Maybe it was at that point? Things change over time including vehicle values as I posted before. It doesn't mean they lied.

Indeed

The reality is with something like that you either bite the bullet and pay ££££s and get the engine rebuilt or you hope you can source an engine at some point.  That might be the same week or it could be six months.  The risk with that is that the customer certainly wont thank you for sourcing an engine, getting it delivered and fitted only to find it has issues too, so a lot of garages wont want to get involved in that with a customer.  Yes, if its a car they then own.  They can spend time working on it at their leisure, but not with a customer breathing down your neck.

dipsomaniac

motorguy said:

dipsomaniac said:

I haven't been to a auction for 10 years so am assuming buyers have a lot more protection these days judging by what you are saying.  

10 years ago the vast majority of cars were sold as seen.  A few were sold with a test drive or no major faults.  Auctions were the vehicle  traders used to get rid of faulty/un- desirable cars.

As i and others have said, regular trade buyers have quite a bit of clout with auction houses, so its never just a matter of dumping stuff through auction risk free.  

We rarely put cars through auctions but when we did we did always describe them fairly.  

I'm always of the belief in life treat people as you'd want to be treated.  

So to be clear what percentage of cars going through auction these days are sold as seen with no come back?

Tranboy

Just let it go, estimated cost was given, no second estimate was obtained to validate first estimate, offer was made and accepted so it's not theft...end of .....

Ibrahim5

It's not theft, more like obtaining goods by deception.

Herzlos

Ibrahim5 said:

It's not theft, more like obtaining goods by deception.

Where was the deception?

Garage: It'll cost £4000 to repair, or I can take it off your hands and save you the hassle.

Owner: Ok, you can have it.
Garage: <Repairs it over 6 months>
Owner: <shocked>.

There was no lies or co-ersion. The owner could have arranged for a scrap yard to come and collect it from the garage and give her £40, and then the scrap yard could have repaired it and sold it. Or she could have had it towed home and dumped in her garden until she found an engine and learned how to replace it.

motorguy

dipsomaniac said:

motorguy said:

dipsomaniac said:

I haven't been to a auction for 10 years so am assuming buyers have a lot more protection these days judging by what you are saying.  

10 years ago the vast majority of cars were sold as seen.  A few were sold with a test drive or no major faults.  Auctions were the vehicle  traders used to get rid of faulty/un- desirable cars.

As i and others have said, regular trade buyers have quite a bit of clout with auction houses, so its never just a matter of dumping stuff through auction risk free.  

We rarely put cars through auctions but when we did we did always describe them fairly.  

I'm always of the belief in life treat people as you'd want to be treated.  

So to be clear what percentage of cars going through auction these days are sold as seen with no come back?

73.26%



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moneymoner

Herzlos said:

Ibrahim5 said:

It's not theft, more like obtaining goods by deception.

Where was the deception?

Garage: It'll cost £4000 to repair, or I can take it off your hands and save you the hassle.

Owner: Ok, you can have it.
Garage: <Repairs it over 6 months>
Owner: <shocked>.

There was no lies or co-ersion. The owner could have arranged for a scrap yard to come and collect it from the garage and give her £40, and then the scrap yard could have repaired it and sold it. Or she could have had it towed home and dumped in her garden until she found an engine and learned how to replace it.

The garage knew what it was worth to them but convinced the seller it was worth nothing to her, that is deception.

If the garage agreed to scrap the vehicle then they must state this in the V5 reciept, which they give to the previous ownew and when they take ownership of the vehicle.

£4000 to repair a broken timing chain is hugely excessive cost and should not cost a capable and skilled mechanic no more than £500 in parts and labour. Even if the valves were damaged in the engine, a replacement or rebuilt engine would not cost no more than £2000 to fit.

Gather together all the photos and as much documents relating to the sale as possible. Then take them to court to get the finance agreement cancelled.

Ibrahim5

I love these discussions. Motor traders just don't understand being honest. It's just not part of their culture. So in a whole sea of lies they see this one as almost honest. I don't really think it's lying. We just mislead her a bit. Exaggerated the repair costs. "No need to worry your little head, we'll take it to the scrapyard for you love. Just sign here". I think if garages ever change it will take generations. Decades.

Herzlos

moneymoner said:

Herzlos said:

Ibrahim5 said:

It's not theft, more like obtaining goods by deception.

Where was the deception?

Garage: It'll cost £4000 to repair, or I can take it off your hands and save you the hassle.

Owner: Ok, you can have it.
Garage: <Repairs it over 6 months>
Owner: <shocked>.

There was no lies or co-ersion. The owner could have arranged for a scrap yard to come and collect it from the garage and give her £40, and then the scrap yard could have repaired it and sold it. Or she could have had it towed home and dumped in her garden until she found an engine and learned how to replace it.

The garage knew what it was worth to them but convinced the seller it was worth nothing to her, that is deception.

If the garage agreed to scrap the vehicle then they must state this in the V5 reciept, which they give to the previous ownew and when they take ownership of the vehicle.

£4000 to repair a broken timing chain is hugely excessive cost and should not cost a capable and skilled mechanic no more than £500 in parts and labour. Even if the valves were damaged in the engine, a replacement or rebuilt engine would not cost no more than £2000 to fit.

Gather together all the photos and as much documents relating to the sale as possible. Then take them to court to get the finance agreement cancelled.

It was worth less than nothing to her. It would have cost her £4000 to get it back running. Of course we don't know if she'd have got someone else to do it for less elsewhere by the time she paid to get it transported about.

She had the option to pay for it and she chose to buy something else, giving the garage the broken car as part of the deal. What's also not clear is if she was given any p/x for it against the price of the new one.

If the garage told her she was going to scrap it, gave her paperwork to that effect and then didn't, they'd be acting badly but I'm pretty sure she just passed it to their ownership.

She can try and take them to court about it if she wants, but she'll get laughed out of court since she agreed to the sale. I think all she could really hope for is for the garage to offer it to her for the £4k back (or whatever they'd actually have billed for it), but even that's a monumental stretch.