Road Tax on EV's

Herzlos

Grey_Critic said:

I found this rather interesting.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2022/03/28/electric-cars-have-dirty-secret/

It's paywalled, so can you give some kind of summary/highlight?

Thrugelmir

Herzlos said:

Thrugelmir said:

 Building EV's isn't green in itself. 

Nothing is particularly green, but EV's result in cleaner air where the car is, and most of the nasties of manufacture can be done somewhere else.

That's a simplistic view of a complex issue. Ticking a box (ESG) rather than addressing and resolving a whole raft of secondary issues. While showing off the hi-tech motor to ones neighbours. 

Herzlos

Thrugelmir said:

Herzlos said:

Thrugelmir said:

 Building EV's isn't green in itself. 

Nothing is particularly green, but EV's result in cleaner air where the car is, and most of the nasties of manufacture can be done somewhere else.

That's a simplistic view of a complex issue. Ticking a box (ESG) rather than addressing and resolving a whole raft of secondary issues. While showing off the hi-tech motor to ones neighbours. 

Sort of. The only real way to address the issue is to stop building private cars entirely and massively expand rail systems, but that ain't going to happen.

Petriix

MouldyOldDough said:

ElefantEd said:

Was your IC vehicle new? Again, compare like with like.

I definitely couldn't afford (nor would want) a new car of any stripe, but bought a second hand EV for about £15k, with zero road tax, cheap insurance, cheap maintenance (less than an ICE, there's simply less to go wrong) and a per mile cost of about 2p. See where I am going with this?

Where do you get 2p per mile from ?

Try 5p per mile - and this can only increase (double ? with increasing energy costs) to make it similar  to my 50mpg running costs of 10p per mile

Road tax - neglible gains (mine is only £30 pa)

And as I keep saying - mine is already owned - saving £15k or whatever

its win win for me

My actual average cost per mile is just 1.1p. My 5p per kWh rate is fixed until January 2023. The total maintenance cost for 15 months has been £33 - there's no MOT until December 2023, no oil to change, no clutch, exhaust pipe, injector seals, timing belt (all things I had to replace on my old diesel car costing several £thousand in total). Brakes will last 100k miles as I only use them just enough to keep them clean.

And your £15k saving assumes that both your existing ICEV and your hypothetical new EV have no residual value. I could sell my EV tomorrow, pay off the remaining mortgage balance and walk away with more money than I would have had I carried on running my old banger.

And I get to run the rest of my house at 5p per kWh too. That's already saving me ~ £250 per year. When my Givenergy battery finally shows up that saving will more than double.

Your 'saving' is all in your mind. Actual real world numbers are very different. 

Jenni_D

I've updated my earlier post ... I checked my records and I have actually achieved 10p per mile with my current car ... 3 times ... in 4.5 years.

MouldyOldDough

Petriix said:

MouldyOldDough said:

ElefantEd said:

Was your IC vehicle new? Again, compare like with like.

I definitely couldn't afford (nor would want) a new car of any stripe, but bought a second hand EV for about £15k, with zero road tax, cheap insurance, cheap maintenance (less than an ICE, there's simply less to go wrong) and a per mile cost of about 2p. See where I am going with this?

Where do you get 2p per mile from ?

Try 5p per mile - and this can only increase (double ? with increasing energy costs) to make it similar  to my 50mpg running costs of 10p per mile

Road tax - neglible gains (mine is only £30 pa)

And as I keep saying - mine is already owned - saving £15k or whatever

its win win for me

My actual average cost per mile is just 1.1p. My 5p per kWh rate is fixed until January 2023. The total maintenance cost for 15 months has been £33 - there's no MOT until December 2023, no oil to change, no clutch, exhaust pipe, injector seals, timing belt (all things I had to replace on my old diesel car costing several £thousand in total). Brakes will last 100k miles as I only use them just enough to keep them clean.

And your £15k saving assumes that both your existing ICEV and your hypothetical new EV have no residual value. I could sell my EV tomorrow, pay off the remaining mortgage balance and walk away with more money than I would have had I carried on running my old banger.

And I get to run the rest of my house at 5p per kWh too. That's already saving me ~ £250 per year. When my Givenergy battery finally shows up that saving will more than double.

Your 'saving' is all in your mind. Actual real world numbers are very different. 

So now - its virtually free to run an ev ?

Sorry - but everywhere I look on the web - tells me 5p + per mile

Please elaborate further

Are you including the replacement costs of the battery after approx 10 years ?

Jenni_D

MouldyOldDough said:

Petriix said:

MouldyOldDough said:

ElefantEd said:

Was your IC vehicle new? Again, compare like with like.

I definitely couldn't afford (nor would want) a new car of any stripe, but bought a second hand EV for about £15k, with zero road tax, cheap insurance, cheap maintenance (less than an ICE, there's simply less to go wrong) and a per mile cost of about 2p. See where I am going with this?

Where do you get 2p per mile from ?

Try 5p per mile - and this can only increase (double ? with increasing energy costs) to make it similar  to my 50mpg running costs of 10p per mile

Road tax - neglible gains (mine is only £30 pa)

And as I keep saying - mine is already owned - saving £15k or whatever

its win win for me

My actual average cost per mile is just 1.1p. My 5p per kWh rate is fixed until January 2023. The total maintenance cost for 15 months has been £33 - there's no MOT until December 2023, no oil to change, no clutch, exhaust pipe, injector seals, timing belt (all things I had to replace on my old diesel car costing several £thousand in total). Brakes will last 100k miles as I only use them just enough to keep them clean.

And your £15k saving assumes that both your existing ICEV and your hypothetical new EV have no residual value. I could sell my EV tomorrow, pay off the remaining mortgage balance and walk away with more money than I would have had I carried on running my old banger.

And I get to run the rest of my house at 5p per kWh too. That's already saving me ~ £250 per year. When my Givenergy battery finally shows up that saving will more than double.

Your 'saving' is all in your mind. Actual real world numbers are very different. 

Are you including the replacement costs of the battery after approx 10 years ?

Now you're just being silly. 🙄

MouldyOldDough

Jenni_D said:

MouldyOldDough said:

Petriix said:

MouldyOldDough said:

ElefantEd said:

Was your IC vehicle new? Again, compare like with like.

I definitely couldn't afford (nor would want) a new car of any stripe, but bought a second hand EV for about £15k, with zero road tax, cheap insurance, cheap maintenance (less than an ICE, there's simply less to go wrong) and a per mile cost of about 2p. See where I am going with this?

Where do you get 2p per mile from ?

Try 5p per mile - and this can only increase (double ? with increasing energy costs) to make it similar  to my 50mpg running costs of 10p per mile

Road tax - neglible gains (mine is only £30 pa)

And as I keep saying - mine is already owned - saving £15k or whatever

its win win for me

My actual average cost per mile is just 1.1p. My 5p per kWh rate is fixed until January 2023. The total maintenance cost for 15 months has been £33 - there's no MOT until December 2023, no oil to change, no clutch, exhaust pipe, injector seals, timing belt (all things I had to replace on my old diesel car costing several £thousand in total). Brakes will last 100k miles as I only use them just enough to keep them clean.

And your £15k saving assumes that both your existing ICEV and your hypothetical new EV have no residual value. I could sell my EV tomorrow, pay off the remaining mortgage balance and walk away with more money than I would have had I carried on running my old banger.

And I get to run the rest of my house at 5p per kWh too. That's already saving me ~ £250 per year. When my Givenergy battery finally shows up that saving will more than double.

Your 'saving' is all in your mind. Actual real world numbers are very different. 

Are you including the replacement costs of the battery after approx 10 years ?

Now you're just being silly. 🙄

No I'm not - just comparng like with like

Herzlos

MouldyOldDough said:

No I'm not - just comparng like with like

You're not. You're cycling through the oft disproven anti-EV nonsense.
An EV battery needs replaced at 10 years no more than a combustion car needs a new engine. Most are still showing pretty good battery life (well above 70% after 10 years).

You're also disputing another users actual, measured running costs by claiming uncited source, whilst ignoring that your running cost figures aren't possible.

ComicGeek

MouldyOldDough said:

Jenni_D said:

MouldyOldDough said:

Petriix said:

MouldyOldDough said:

ElefantEd said:

Was your IC vehicle new? Again, compare like with like.

I definitely couldn't afford (nor would want) a new car of any stripe, but bought a second hand EV for about £15k, with zero road tax, cheap insurance, cheap maintenance (less than an ICE, there's simply less to go wrong) and a per mile cost of about 2p. See where I am going with this?

Where do you get 2p per mile from ?

Try 5p per mile - and this can only increase (double ? with increasing energy costs) to make it similar  to my 50mpg running costs of 10p per mile

Road tax - neglible gains (mine is only £30 pa)

And as I keep saying - mine is already owned - saving £15k or whatever

its win win for me

My actual average cost per mile is just 1.1p. My 5p per kWh rate is fixed until January 2023. The total maintenance cost for 15 months has been £33 - there's no MOT until December 2023, no oil to change, no clutch, exhaust pipe, injector seals, timing belt (all things I had to replace on my old diesel car costing several £thousand in total). Brakes will last 100k miles as I only use them just enough to keep them clean.

And your £15k saving assumes that both your existing ICEV and your hypothetical new EV have no residual value. I could sell my EV tomorrow, pay off the remaining mortgage balance and walk away with more money than I would have had I carried on running my old banger.

And I get to run the rest of my house at 5p per kWh too. That's already saving me ~ £250 per year. When my Givenergy battery finally shows up that saving will more than double.

Your 'saving' is all in your mind. Actual real world numbers are very different. 

Are you including the replacement costs of the battery after approx 10 years ?

Now you're just being silly. 🙄

No I'm not - just comparng like with like

You've already had 2 actual EV owners explain in detail what their running costs are, no need to elaborate further. Anyone charging a EV at home should look carefully at their electricity contracts/tariffs and look to reduce their costs - owning a EV gives you access to very low electricity rates, and other ways of reducing/producing/storing electricity are readily available with good paybacks for those who commit to it. The quoted 5p/mile assumes that people don't do anything proactively on this, more fool them.

EVs don't need batteries replaced after 10 years - that's like saying that every ICE requires a full engine replacement when it reaches 10 years. But perhaps you should include that in your nonsensical comparison, but with EV owners able to reuse their old batteries for home storage to provide even larger energy savings.