Which? safety alert on children's car seat

jjjggg333

Aylesbury_Duck said:

jjjggg333 said:

sheramber said:

Presumably , since the seats are only tested safe up to 40 mph  you do not drive above 40mph.as you  would be putting your child at risk.

[eye roll]

Why the eye roll?  It's a perfectly reasonable point and a logical extension of your argument  You're unhappy with a car seat because you only consider it safe at up to 30mph based on a test report. You're now using a seat you perceive to be safer because it's been tested at up to 40mph or whatever speed it was tested at.  Why on earth would you then drive at a higher speed, if safety of the seat is your priority?  You're undermining your own argument.

As I see it, it's all down to the currency of the safety standards, testing methods and latest knowledge.  The history of car safety is full of features that at one point were considered acceptably safe and an improvement on an older standard.  Take lap-only seat-belts as just one example.  Perhaps better than no seat-belt at all, but we're then superseded by the safer three-point seat belt and then inertia reel belts.  Would owners of a car with lap belts be entitled to a refund or exchange just because a new safety standard emerged since purchase?  No.  Would it be practical for them to do so out of goodwill?  No.

Your new seat may be inherently safer at 30mph, and who am I to question your motivation to seek the safest option - I'd do the same - but expecting a manufacturer to offer refunds or exchanges because a new test emerges, a test that wasn't required at design or manufacturing stage, is either going to put them out of business or prices up to a non-viable level.  What happens when you discover a new type of test exposes a previously unknown risk with your new car seat when it's exposed to a side-impact crash at an angle of 80 degrees at 41mph, for example?  Back to the manufacturer for a refund?

Because @Manxman_in_exile's point is well made whilst @sheramber's is facetious.

We can go round in circles on this, but I'd reiterate that another manufacturer, Nuna, previously in this scenario was able to both maintain that their seat met legal requirements whilst also empathising with customers who felt uncomfortable about a safety alert:

"The German Automobile Club, ADAC, has performed an extreme test, which is not recognised by the UK Department of Transport, or any other standard the industry is asked to comply with.

'We will not be conducting a product recall unless the recognised relevant national authorities deem the seat is unsafe.

'However, ultimately, what matters is our customers’ peace of mind – therefore, we are offering full refunds to any customer that does not feel that the rigorous UK government standards are sufficient."

Aylesbury_Duck

There's no need to go round in circles.  You've come on a consumer rights forum and asked for advice.  You have no consumer right to a refund, and the advice is that it's unreasonable to expect a goodwill refund but that there's no harm in asking for one.  That's it.  No circles, not one poster has given an incorrect answer.  You even have the precedent you were after - you had it already, as described above.

jjjggg333

Aylesbury_Duck said:

There's no need to go round in circles.  You've come on a consumer rights forum and asked for advice.  You have no consumer right to a refund, and the advice is that it's unreasonable to expect a goodwill refund but that there's no harm in asking for one.  That's it.  No circles, not one poster has given an incorrect answer.  You even have the precedent you were after - you had it already, as described above.

I think you're right, i've asked the wrong crowd for my original question: whether anyone has had any luck getting a goodwill gesture. You've been answering the question (I didn't ask) of whether I'm entitled to a refund. Hence the circles.

Aylesbury_Duck

It would be a very niche forum board that's likely to attract people who've successfully got a goodwill refund for a legally-compliant child's car seat that's subsequently been shown to have a weakness in an altered set of circumstances!

Would mumsnet be a better place to search for those people?

jjjggg333

Aylesbury_Duck said:

It would be a very niche forum board that's likely to attract people who've successfully got a goodwill refund for a legally-compliant child's car seat that's subsequently been shown to have a weakness in an altered set of circumstances!

Would mumsnet be a better place to search for those people?

...hence the circles

born_again

jjjggg333 said:

born_again said:

I'm sure your 7 YO is going to love sitting facing backwards... Well it will give their friends a good laugh.

As we say in the biking world a good fitting helmet with a lower test result is better than a badly fitting helmet that has top marks.

OK. Bizarre

Not so bizarre when the average height of a 7 year old is just under 4 foot. 

Boy 7 years

3ft 12in (121.9 cm)

Girl 3ft 11.7in (121.1 cm)

Just where will there legs be when they are sat facing the seat?

k3lvc

Just where will there legs be when they are sat facing the seat?

Either round their ears or round the headrest 

jjjggg333

born_again said:

jjjggg333 said:

born_again said:

I'm sure your 7 YO is going to love sitting facing backwards... Well it will give their friends a good laugh.

As we say in the biking world a good fitting helmet with a lower test result is better than a badly fitting helmet that has top marks.

OK. Bizarre

Not so bizarre when the average height of a 7 year old is just under 4 foot. 

Boy 7 years

3ft 12in (121.9 cm)

Girl 3ft 11.7in (121.1 cm)

Just where will there legs be when they are sat facing the seat?

I think you may have slightly lost sight of the discussion

flowerapplerabbit

As a first time visitor to this forum, it's not at all what I expected. I thought the point was to support consumers, hadn't expected so many people to side with the company and focus on the tiny details. I guess noone has any tips for encouraging good will gestures when you're not legally entitled to something! I've been on to Chicco's website today and the branding is all about "listening to parents", "specialists in safety using the most advanced technologies ensuring perfection to the smallest detail", " the highest safety standards" - so I think I'll appeal to that philosophy as the basis of my request. 
Legally compliant does not always equate to safe in a country run by a government who believes in reducing red tape and in individual responsibility rather than regulations. It's not a brand new innovation in testing that has found this seat unsafe, it's just a test at a slightly higher speed which in some other countries would be what it's expected to pass. Of course, I realise that means the company is under no legal obligation, but hopefully I can appeal to their company values and hope that it isn't just empty marketing slogans. As noone else has any other suggestions, I'll go with this and see how I get on.

flowerapplerabbit

flowerapplerabbit said:

As a first time visitor to this forum, it's not at all what I expected. I thought the point was to support consumers, hadn't expected so many people to side with the company and focus on the tiny details. I guess noone has any tips for encouraging good will gestures when you're not legally entitled to something! I've been on to Chicco's website today and the branding is all about "listening to parents", "specialists in safety using the most advanced technologies ensuring perfection to the smallest detail", " the highest safety standards" - so I think I'll appeal to that philosophy as the basis of my request. 
Legally compliant does not always equate to safe in a country run by a government who believes in reducing red tape and in individual responsibility rather than regulations. It's not a brand new innovation in testing that has found this seat unsafe, it's just a test at a slightly higher speed which in some other countries would be what it's expected to pass. Of course, I realise that means the company is under no legal obligation, but hopefully I can appeal to their company values and hope that it isn't just empty marketing slogans. As noone else has any other suggestions, I'll go with this and see how I get on.

Useful to hear there is a precedent for it though @jjjggg333, I'll mention that too