Diagnostic Fee - Fair?

dipsomaniac

Motorguy.  You are reading what you want to read.  No one is saying that garages haven't got overheads or that they don't deserve to make a profit, that they are using £3.95 cables (although they should be) or that 60yr old lady's should be fixing there own cars

What I am saying is that garages are ripping people off with legacy diagnostic fees that should have been outlawed years ago. You can't defend the indefensible especially when main dealers are fleecing customers to the tune of £150 per hour. I don't want the parts bloke wearing a tie I want him in oily overalls.

You are clearly not on the side of the punter or a MSE

Ibrahim5

Take my parking sensor job. The system warns there is a problem and they won't work. You plug the computer in. It tells you which sensor is faulty. You buy a new one off eBay. I prefer secondhand genuine to copies. Normally about £6. They have an electrical connector and clip in the bumper. Saving £294 over dealer's £300 price.

Grey_Critic

Motorguy has explained (in simple terms) how a garage works and how it arrives at a charge.out rate - not just a main dealer but any garage.

ALL businesses have overheads. I write operation manuals for a consultancy and even I have overheads - my main item of expenditure being a computer but I also have software and subscriptions/licences, printer, ink, paper. binders etc.

What I find amusing is the assumption by some that a fiver for a code reader solves everything. I stopped crawling around in all weathers to fix something many years ago.

Someone has given a link for the device on sale at Aldi. I looked at it today and I note on the packing it says - Turn off the error codes or similar words. If you get an error code then there is a reason for it.

Turning the warning light off solves nothing what you need is the knowledge equipment and ability to repair whatever is causing the warning light to come on.

Cars used to be serviced every 6 months/6,000 miles - when manufacturers changed that to 12 months/12,000 miles that immediately caused a big drop in business - more and more cars have become more *complicated* We used to remove and install engines/clutches/gearboxes/axles at the side of the road - try doing that today.

My first car had twin SU Carburettors - if it was not running right I would stop and re-tune them. Technology has overtaken us - a few more years and you will be soldering connections on your electric vehicles and the only fuel injection you will see is at classic car shows.

angrycrow

It really is not as simple as plug in code reader, see what code says and replace that sensor. 

Chap on another forum the other day had his alarm going off randomly. He read the codes which suggested 3 different faulty sensors for the alarm. He was about to replace the sensors. Those of us who have had the same issue were able to stop him wasting his money and point him to the correct part to replace which would fix his issue. A code reader would never have correctly identified the fault. 

Mother in laws car kept throwing intermittent  oxygen sensor codes. Garages kept replacing the sensors which would then fail again. A different garage finally correctly diagnoses a faulty loom in the engine bay which had rubbed through and was shorting on the engine block.

You need experience and knowledge to diagnoses faults on any car. My approach is always to deduce what the problem is likely to be from the symptoms and then see if the codes confirm it. 

Also worth noting as has already been said cheap ebay / amazon code readers are OK for basic stuff but can't read abs or airbag codes on most cars. 

Ibrahim5

A flat battery can cause lots of error codes. It's common practice to make a note of error codes and if it's not clear why they occurred to clear them and see if they return. Sometimes you need to clear a code to return function after a repair.

Ibrahim5

It's interesting reading all the reviews on Amazon. Thousands and thousands of people have bought cheap OBD2 scanners. I would say 80-90% get 4 or 5* reviews. Loads of stories of cars fixed and money saved. Yet on here we have to have the same old "you won't understand them", "you'll kill yourself", "they don't work". It's a money saving website for consumers to share their money saving tips. Having people from the industry trying to justify massive garage charges doesn't really seem very helpful to me.

Grey_Critic

Don't think people are trying to justify *massive garage charges* (your words) simply being realistic. Any business has to make a profit it is just the infrastructure that is not as lavish for the smaller garage.

Being able to ignore and just turn off a warning light does not come from reading forums such as this. Watching a *tradesman at work* often gives the impression it is money for old rope but in reality it takes training, knowledge and experience, something that most people do not have.

Ibrahim5

Well who exactly do you think are buying all the cheap OBD2 scanners on Amazon? It's just normal consumers with a preponderance of DIYers. They are either fixing problems themselves or the information is helping them get a better deal at a garage.

motorguy

dipsomaniac said:

Motorguy.  You are reading what you want to read.  No one is saying that garages haven't got overheads or that they don't deserve to make a profit, that they are using £3.95 cables (although they should be) or that 60yr old lady's should be fixing there own cars

What I am saying is that garages are ripping people off with legacy diagnostic fees that should have been outlawed years ago. You can't defend the indefensible especially when main dealers are fleecing customers to the tune of £150 per hour. I don't want the parts bloke wearing a tie I want him in oily overalls.

You are clearly not on the side of the punter or a MSE

I am totally on the side of the punter and am aligned to the MSE ethos.  In fact the solution i (and one or two others) proposed for the lady who originally posted is the one she has went with going forward and she thanked us for it.

I have not once said people must go to a main dealers for diagnostics.

They can and do justify their charges based on their overheads, however they are totally avoidable charges even if you dont want to do the work yourself, by finding a reputable indy / local mechanic.  My BMW is turning 3 years old this month.  It will now never darken the door of a main dealers and it will go to my local indy (who was doing the non scheduled services / maintenance on it anyway).  

motorguy

angrycrow said:

It really is not as simple as plug in code reader, see what code says and replace that sensor. 

Chap on another forum the other day had his alarm going off randomly. He read the codes which suggested 3 different faulty sensors for the alarm. He was about to replace the sensors. Those of us who have had the same issue were able to stop him wasting his money and point him to the correct part to replace which would fix his issue. A code reader would never have correctly identified the fault. 

Mother in laws car kept throwing intermittent  oxygen sensor codes. Garages kept replacing the sensors which would then fail again. A different garage finally correctly diagnoses a faulty loom in the engine bay which had rubbed through and was shorting on the engine block.

You need experience and knowledge to diagnoses faults on any car. My approach is always to deduce what the problem is likely to be from the symptoms and then see if the codes confirm it. 

Also worth noting as has already been said cheap ebay / amazon code readers are OK for basic stuff but can't read abs or airbag codes on most cars. 

Exactly this.

And thats is what Dipso and Fred are not acknowledging.  The diagnostic charge is not about paying to plug it in to a code reader - that is NOT the diagnostic - its about paying for the knowledge to interpret what the computers on the car are telling you and correctly diagnosing the fault.  

As usual Fred is muddying the waters and stirring up anti main dealer / garage sentiments based on half truths at best and encouraging people to have a go themselves.  All very well but when it does go wrong he'll be nowhere to be seen and someone will have a bill for £££s - like that poor woman who took his advice about getting a mobile mechanic off facebook.  The guy came out, took her car apart on her driveway and then legged it, leaving where with a +£££s bill to get her local reputable garage to sort it.