Diagnostic Fee - Fair?

motorguy

Jenni_D said:

As I said - nothing ventured, nothing gained. OP would be no worse off trying with an email.

Maybe, maybe not.  It just wont be a "rocket under the DPs backside".

If i did feel the need for a goodwill gesture, i'd be linking it to a discount off their next visit.

dipsomaniac

motorguy said:

dipsomaniac said:

I just hope this thread does not deter people from trying to save money by fixing their own cars. That is what MSE is all about.

Mechanics aren't super human and engines really haven't changed a lot in 120 yrs (just less room to work in). IMO people  have become a lot lazier when it comes to washing their cars and doing basic repairs.  That is why garages can get away with the exorbitant fees they charge.

What did you offer on the thread, other than bickering and bitterness?

The title of this thread is 'diagnostic fee - fair?' I have answered that by saying it is not fair and should be outlawed.  It is a double charge which garages can't justify.  I maintain that the hardware cost is insignificant.  I don't know about the software cost but a snapon diagnostic kit costs approx £3k. 

You have advised the op not to use a main dealer if you don't want to be ripped off but find a good indie - good luck with that OP.  I had to visit about 10 Indies before I found a good one.  Most 'mechanics' are fitters not mechanics

Please don't try and explain about how a garage makes money again or that someone has to pay for the 'free' (lol) tea and coffee.  I think we all know the formulae for profit

Grey_Critic

***The title of this thread is 'diagnostic fee - fair?' I have answered that by saying it is not fair and should be outlawed.***

You may consider it unfair whilst others may not With regard to it being **outlawed** I have no idea how you could possibly do that. Your vehicle has a fault - well first they have to diagnose what is causing the problem - at that point you have a choice.

Do they fix it or not? If not are you suggesting that you should not be charged?

The garage it has already been explained has costs that are met by selling its services *and that includes diagnostics*

My boiler has some faults diagnosed on a service - in theory I could DIY but then I am not **legally** qualified to do the job - Gas Safe regulations. I have to pay someone to do it.

When it comes to cars you might be able to check for a fault with a £5.00 test meter, you might be able to fiy a part but in many cases you actually require the *expensive* equipment to programme the ECU when you have fitted the part. At one time if you needed to replace an ECU on a Ford vehicle it came pre-programmed but then they changed things. The ECU came blank and you used the FDS equipment to programme it.

Might not like paying for diagnostics etc but if you decide not to do so then you will need a good bus service.

dipsomaniac

You have totally missed the point or don't understand the charge.  The diagnostic fee car garages charge is a double charge and separate from their hourly rate.  It is a legacy explicit charge for plugging their laptop into your ECU. You can't compare it with your boiler or gas safety regs

Grey_Critic

Is it a seperate charge though - could it be that they are being more open with their charges- Instead of saying *repair fault on vehicle* they could actually be breaking the costs down.

When I was with Ford a technician doing diagnostics on a vehicle actually listed the various operations/tests when using the FDS ( Ford diagnostic system) - that is how the system worked. It might show on the invoice as **Diagnose* but the job sheet showed a long list of tests carried out to arrive at the result and yes the next line might say- Replace XXX sensor. The time spent diagnosing might be an hour or more whilst the actual repair may have only taken a matter of minutes - actually a good dealer would have listed the various steps - we did.

Robbo66

@dipsomaniac actually I think you are wide of the point, garages charge their flat hourly rate to do diagnostics whether this takes a 5 mins or an hour to do, you are paying for the technicians time, cost of equipment, building electric and what ever else. They then give a price for repair but if you don't give them the repair work they will you will still have paid for the technician. I just don't understand why you cant grasp that.

Even for actual repair work they charge for a given set of time so if they charge out at 90 mins and it takes 70 you still pay for 90 mins labour that is how dealers and probably indies as well make their money

motorguy

dipsomaniac said:

motorguy said:

dipsomaniac said:

I just hope this thread does not deter people from trying to save money by fixing their own cars. That is what MSE is all about.

Mechanics aren't super human and engines really haven't changed a lot in 120 yrs (just less room to work in). IMO people  have become a lot lazier when it comes to washing their cars and doing basic repairs.  That is why garages can get away with the exorbitant fees they charge.

What did you offer on the thread, other than bickering and bitterness?

The title of this thread is 'diagnostic fee - fair?' I have answered that by saying it is not fair and should be outlawed.  It is a double charge which garages can't justify.  I maintain that the hardware cost is insignificant.  I don't know about the software cost but a snapon diagnostic kit costs approx £3k. 

You have advised the op not to use a main dealer if you don't want to be ripped off but find a good indie - good luck with that OP.  I had to visit about 10 Indies before I found a good one.  Most 'mechanics' are fitters not mechanics

Please don't try and explain about how a garage makes money again or that someone has to pay for the 'free' (lol) tea and coffee.  I think we all know the formulae for profit

Sadly, you dont seem to understand how businesses work.

Also odd you couldnt find a decent mechanic.  Its not hard to have one recommended by a friend or colleague as a starting point.  We live out in the sticks and theres still half a dozen within a few miles.  Though i'm sure turning up with a code from your £3.95 code reader and telling them what to do and how long it should take them doesnt set the relationship off on the right foot.

The trick is not to go to the cheapest.  They're the cheapest for a reason.  Find the middle ground.  

motorguy

dipsomaniac said:

You have totally missed the point or don't understand the charge.  The diagnostic fee car garages charge is a double charge and separate from their hourly rate.  It is a legacy explicit charge for plugging their laptop into your ECU. You can't compare it with your boiler or gas safety regs

You're still of the belief the diagnostic charge is for doing nothing else but plugging it in to the computer.  Theres far more to it than that.  Getting the code is only the start of the diagnostic process.

motorguy

Grey_Critic said:

Is it a seperate charge though - could it be that they are being more open with their charges- Instead of saying *repair fault on vehicle* they could actually be breaking the costs down.

When I was with Ford a technician doing diagnostics on a vehicle actually listed the various operations/tests when using the FDS ( Ford diagnostic system) - that is how the system worked. It might show on the invoice as **Diagnose* but the job sheet showed a long list of tests carried out to arrive at the result and yes the next line might say- Replace XXX sensor. The time spent diagnosing might be an hour or more whilst the actual repair may have only taken a matter of minutes - actually a good dealer would have listed the various steps - we did.

Yup.  It amazes me he doesnt get that.

In a previous job role i was a database specialist for a bank.  I was part of an on call rota for the team, should any of the databases go down.  As ultimately it was a matter of reading the log files generated and looking for the errors, i'm sure Dipso would dismiss that as a job anyone could do too, but it was knowing what the codes meant, what then to check and what order to do things in was what we got paid top dollar for.  

dipsomaniac

Robbo66 said:

@dipsomaniac actually I think you are wide of the point, garages charge their flat hourly rate to do diagnostics whether this takes a 5 mins or an hour to do, you are paying for the technicians time, cost of equipment, building electric and what ever else. They then give a price for repair but if you don't give them the repair work they will you will still have paid for the technician. I just don't understand why you cant grasp that.

Even for actual repair work they charge for a given set of time so if they charge out at 90 mins and it takes 70 you still pay for 90 mins labour that is how dealers and probably indies as well make their money

So was it right that the OP paid for the abs sensor + 1 hrs labour + £123 diagnostic charge?