Diagnostic Fee - Fair?

[Deleted User]

Well I was in the car today and when I jumped in to head home the very lamps from my earlier post activated - coil lamp flashing once per second and  orange cruise control activated.

Ran torque pro for quickness, no fault displayed, sent erase command, warning lamps still illuminated. Had to get my diagnostic instrument out the boor and connect that. This showed a pending fault, fuel rail pressure outside expected value.

Cleared and set off without further incedent. ELM and torque pro failed to even load a fault (again).

Edit:for clarity, the EML is not illuminated, car went into limp with the coil & adaptive cruise control illuminated orange - torque pro failed to recognise or clear the issue. Had to load up an Autel unit.

@Ibrahim5 what cheap software do you suggest for clearing safety faults, SRS or ABS spring to mind?

dipsomaniac

The hardware is a 16 pin socket and costs nothing.

You don't explicitly pay for the ramps, compressor, welder or any other tools or equipment needed to run a garage. So why pay a extra charge for software to diagnose a fault??

Grey_Critic

dipsomaniac said:

You don't explicitly pay for the ramps, compressor, welder or any other tools or equipment needed to run a garage.

But you do - it is built into the labour rate just as are wages and taxes - and the diagnostic equipment.

dipsomaniac

The diagnostic fee is a separate/addional charge on your bill.

The hardware was expensive 25 years ago but now that the ECU socket and software has been standardised it is no longer necessary to charge extra for this tool which takes 10 mins to read and interpret

Ibrahim5

arctic_ghost said:

Well I was in the car today and sowhen I jumped in to head home the very lamps from my earlier post activated - coil lamp flashing once per second and  orange cruise control activated.

Ran torque pro for quickness, no fault displayed, sent erase command, warning lamps still illuminated. Had to get my diagnostic instrument out the boor and connect that. This showed a pending fault, fuel rail pressure outside expected value.

Cleared and set off without further incedent. ELM and torque pro failed to even load a fault (again).

@Ibrahim5 what cheap software do you suggest for clearing safety faults, SRS or ABS spring to mind?

Sorry I really don't profess to be an expert. I have just taken an out of date PC and bought an interface off eBay. Downloaded free software and it's worked for everything I have needed. Most of these programs have been reverse engineered which implies that the manufacturers won't assist at all. I don't think you can guarantee that they will do everything you need. 

dipsomaniac

I didn't have much luck with Torque pro as it didn't pick up a fault code which was showing on the free version of VAGCOM.

in my experience the free version of software can be useful for fault codes.  If you want to open more features, modules or use live data you need to pay.

pimento

Interesting read, thank you all. I now have a better understanding.
I stand by my original post, though. I still think they could have given me a bit of a discount on the diagnostic fee and I'd have been happy. It wouldn't have needed to be much.

As for doing it myself, I'm a 60 something woman who uses the car to get to the golf club and back and wouldn't have a clue where to start. I will, however, be looking for a local garage now.

Many thanks

motorguy

dipsomaniac said:

The diagnostic fee is a separate/addional charge on your bill.

The hardware was expensive 25 years ago but now that the ECU socket and software has been standardised it is no longer necessary to charge extra for this tool which takes 10 mins to read and interpret

Main dealers arent using some £3.95 ebay special to diagnose faults because frankly its only giving the relatively generic codes and it cant reach / interrogate all of the ECUs in the car - there could be 10 or more.  Not only that, where a £3.95 ebay special might give you a "low fuel pressure rail" error or similar, their diagnostics could read what the pressure is / has been historically.  That gives them a whole other dimension of diagnostic knowledge.

On top of that and as i said earlier, its not a matter of turning up to the main dealer and the mechanic idly plugging the car in from the code reader he has in his pocket, chatting to you about it, shaking your hand and happily sending you on your way...

Everything else thats involved.

• Book the car in by speaking to service reception (staff to be paid for, heat, office / building to be paid for, business rates, electric, phone systems, computer systems to support all of that)
• Car arrives in for the work, check the car in with service reception (staff to be paid for, heat, office / building to be paid for, business rates, electric, phone systems, computer systems to support all of that)
• Wait on the car in the waiting area (waiting room to be paid for, heat, business rates, electric, etc). 
• Perhaps avail of their "free" coffee and biscuits (all to be paid for).
• Mechanic drives the car in to the workshop (workshop space to be paid for), connects it up (computer system diagnostics to be paid for), reads the codes, makes the diagnosis, writes up the diagnosis, presents the diagnosis back to service department (this all takes time).
• Engagement again with service reception (staff to be paid for, heat, office / building to be paid for, business rates, electric, phone systems, computer systems to support all of that) so that they articulate back to you whats wrong with the car and what it will cost to resolve it.

All of this amounts to time spent and overhead costs accrued, which whilst not charged to them on an hourly basis can be broken out on a "per hour" basis as a standing charge.  It is also not unreasonable for them to have a profit margin on that.

And all of the above - particularly the mechanics time - means he cant be revenue earning on anything else while hes doing it.

motorguy

pimento said:

Interesting read, thank you all. I now have a better understanding.
I stand by my original post, though. I still think they could have given me a bit of a discount on the diagnostic fee and I'd have been happy. It wouldn't have needed to be much.

As for doing it myself, I'm a 60 something woman who uses the car to get to the golf club and back and wouldn't have a clue where to start. I will, however, be looking for a local garage now.

Many thanks

Good you've been able to filter through the nonsense posted by some to get to the crux of it - definitely find a decent local mechanic who can look after the car for you

Thats what we do with ours - take them for the scheduled servicing / warranty work while under warranty, then after that they go to a local mechanic up the road.  Not a pups chance i'd be starting to diagnose fuel rail faults or ABS faults myself because even IF i got it right i'm not going to do the work myself anyway.  Hope you get sorted with someone good locally

motorguy

Ibrahim5 said:

arctic_ghost said:

Well I was in the car today and sowhen I jumped in to head home the very lamps from my earlier post activated - coil lamp flashing once per second and  orange cruise control activated.

Ran torque pro for quickness, no fault displayed, sent erase command, warning lamps still illuminated. Had to get my diagnostic instrument out the boor and connect that. This showed a pending fault, fuel rail pressure outside expected value.

Cleared and set off without further incedent. ELM and torque pro failed to even load a fault (again).

@Ibrahim5 what cheap software do you suggest for clearing safety faults, SRS or ABS spring to mind?

Sorry I really don't profess to be an expert. I have just taken an out of date PC and bought an interface off eBay. Downloaded free software and it's worked for everything I have needed. Most of these programs have been reverse engineered which implies that the manufacturers won't assist at all. I don't think you can guarantee that they will do everything you need. 

Which works for you Fred, however the O/P has told us shes a woman in her 60s with no interest in any of that, so not sure why you're persisting with it.