surge pricing

peter_the_piper

https://www.proactiveinvestors.co.uk/companies/news/973734/power-companies-trial-new-surge-pricing-to-reduce-stress-on-the-electricity-grid-973734.html

I was one who didn't believe they would do this but the advent of electric cars and the "current" crisis has seen them testing the idea. It would be better if they built more power stations.

QrizB

1. There are already two threads on this: here and here.

2. Time-of-use tariffs are nothing new; you might have heard of Economy 7?

3. Smart time-of-use tariffs aren't new either, Octopus Agile for example.

[Deleted User]

peter_the_piper said:

https://www.proactiveinvestors.co.uk/companies/news/973734/power-companies-trial-new-surge-pricing-to-reduce-stress-on-the-electricity-grid-973734.html

I was one who didn't believe they would do this but the advent of electric cars and the "current" crisis has seen them testing the idea. It would be better if they built more power stations.

They are doing that: they are called solar; tidal, and wind farms with some new nuclear AGRs a decade or so into the future. The problem with renewable energy is that it is very weather dependent: we either have too much or too little.   

Time-of- use pricing (rather than surge which is a media word) offers us a way of better matching demand with available supply. If, for example, it is better for the Grid to put a dishwasher on at say 7pm rather than in the peak 4 to 7pm period and to do it at half the cost then why wouldn’t you?

PS Building new power stations which require gas or coal does not sit well with the Government’s Net Zero agenda.  

peter_the_piper

I obviously missed the threads, sorry. As for power stations I was thinking more like the Rolls Royce mini nukes.

Sterlingtimes

With agile pricing, we made a concerted effort to avoid the use of high-energy appliances during the hours of 4 PM to 7 PM. However, agile pricing failed when the supplier was unable to offer differential pricing owing to market conditions. We then moved back to using our high-energy appliances during the hours 4 PM to 7 PM while some solar generation is still available.

[Deleted User]

peter_the_piper said:

I obviously missed the threads, sorry. As for power stations I was thinking more like the Rolls Royce mini nukes.

RR is only at the ‘proof of concept’ stage with the earliest date of first delivery being 2031. New projects where Government is involved are historically late and over budget. We have a decade of ‘making do’ whilst the Government tries to catch up for decisions it has repeatedly kicked into the long grass.

c_smith

My concern with this is what is referred to as "surge pricing".  I've seen in some reports that energy suppliers could change the tariffs up to 48 times a day depending on how great the demand is.  If that's the case, how on earth can anyone plan to save money as you will never know when the "peak" times are.  Such a scheme would not be about customers saving money, but an excuse for suppliers to rip customers off.  If its "time of use" with clearly defined peak periods that you can limit your usage, that's different.  

I'm due to have smart meters fitted next week and now I'm thinking of cancelling them until I have more information about this.  

QrizB

c_smith said:

My concern with this is what is referred to as "surge pricing".  I've seen in some reports that energy suppliers could change the tariffs up to 48 times a day depending on how great the demand is.

Already happens if you choose Octopus Agile. Here's a screenshot from https://agileprices.co.uk showing the pricing on the 2nd of January this year (the prices are not typical of the whole year to date, but it shows the general idea):

If that's the case, how on earth can anyone plan to save money as you will never know when the "peak" times are. 

You get told a day in advance.

If its "time of use" with clearly defined peak periods that you can limit your usage, that's different. 

Those tariffs already exist too; traditional ones like Economy 7, or more recent ones like Octopus Go.

I'm using Octopus Go and so far my average price paid since September is around 10p/kWh.

I'm due to have smart meters fitted next week and now I'm thinking of cancelling them until I have more information about this.  

Thst's your choice, at least until your meter reaches end-of-life and needs replacing.

c_smith

QrizB said:

c_smith said:

My concern with this is what is referred to as "surge pricing".  I've seen in some reports that energy suppliers could change the tariffs up to 48 times a day depending on how great the demand is.

Already happens if you choose Octopus Agile. Here's a screenshot from https://agileprices.co.uk showing the pricing on the 2nd of January this year (the prices are not typical of the whole year to date, but it shows the general idea):

If that's the case, how on earth can anyone plan to save money as you will never know when the "peak" times are. 

You get told a day in advance.

If its "time of use" with clearly defined peak periods that you can limit your usage, that's different. 

Those tariffs already exist too; traditional ones like Economy 7, or more recent ones like Octopus Go.

I'm using Octopus Go and so far my average price paid since September is around 10p/kWh.

I'm due to have smart meters fitted next week and now I'm thinking of cancelling them until I have more information about this.  

Thst's your choice, at least until your meter reaches end-of-life and needs replacing.

And do those times and costs vary much based on your experience? Also, how are you informed, is it via an app or an email? 

Do they keep you informed as to your average cost, if so, how often, or do you need to work it out yourself? 

[Deleted User]

c_smith said:

My concern with this is what is referred to as "surge pricing".  I've seen in some reports that energy suppliers could change the tariffs up to 48 times a day depending on how great the demand is.  If that's the case, how on earth can anyone plan to save money as you will never know when the "peak" times are.  Such a scheme would not be about customers saving money, but an excuse for suppliers to rip customers off.  If its "time of use" with clearly defined peak periods that you can limit your usage, that's different.  

I'm due to have smart meters fitted next week and now I'm thinking of cancelling them until I have more information about this.  

I doubt that we will see many tariffs like Agile: they are very much aimed at a niche cohort of customers. I was able to undercut the cheapest fixed tariff on the market by a margin with very little effort.

More common are tariffs based on peak; mid-peak, and offpeak times and rates. This is a Spanish time-of-use tariff:


Half hour usage recording is more about industry settlements (eg; payments to wholesalers) than changing the tariff every 30 minutes.

Gerry1

c_smith said:

I'm due to have smart meters fitted next week and now I'm thinking of cancelling them until I have more information about this.  

If you get a smart meter, it will make your electricity cripplingly expensive only at the times you actually use it !