surge pricing

Astria

and how exactly are typical criminals going to get there hands on this information? Not forgetting that even by the time most people get it, it's already out of date as it's not real time.

If you want to find out if someone is home, just go and visit several times a day, it'll be far more useful and easier to obtain.

Oxy1

Astria said:

and how exactly are typical criminals going to get there hands on this information? Not forgetting that even by the time most people get it, it's already out of date as it's not real time.

If you want to find out if someone is home, just go and visit several times a day, it'll be far more useful and easier to obtain.

Look, many people do not trust Google, Facebook or Apple. But those are HUGE multinational companies with valuations in hundreds of billions and truly MASSIVE brand value. They have thousands of mathematicians, cryptographers and programmers working for each of  them.

And compare that to "energy" companies in the UK.....   there have been too many cow boy suppliers. But there are also lots of in-the- middle companies that read your meters, transmit data, etc.  If the meter is capable of transmitting usage data in real time then I would say it is quite possible that criminals will get their hands on that data also in real time. And I once again state that all the hundreds of companies involved in UK consumer energy are not even remotely as sophisticated as Google, Apple or Facebook - and even those sometimes have data breaches.

"Go and visit several times"  - you must be joking! Police prefer not to do that now and criminals also prefer not to do that if the data can be: 1. more reliably 2. easier 3. safer obtained by other means!

MWT

Oxy1 said:

"Go and visit several times"  - you must be joking! Police prefer not to do that now and criminals also prefer not to do that if the data can be: 1. more reliably 2. easier 3. safer obtained by other means!

There is a danger of greatly over stating the level of sophistication employed by the criminal elements.

Determining if a target is really away or not can be as simple as placing a strip of sellotape over a front door lock, or spilling a can of beans on a doorstep, if it is still there 24 hours later then there is a good chance nobody is at home...

Oxy1

MWT said:

Oxy1 said:

"Go and visit several times"  - you must be joking! Police prefer not to do that now and criminals also prefer not to do that if the data can be: 1. more reliably 2. easier 3. safer obtained by other means!

There is a danger of greatly over stating the level of sophistication employed by the criminal elements.

Determining if a target is really away or not can be as simple as placing a strip of sellotape over a front door lock, or spilling a can of beans on a doorstep, if it is still there 24 hours later then there is a good chance nobody is at home...

Some will use low tech methods no doubt. But you would be surprised at level of technical sophistication of many criminal gangs (and how often even when companies try to implement data encryption they make so huge mistakes that essentially there is no encryption in place - and very often there is actually no encryption in place).  If I were a criminal, for example I would much rather have access to smart meter data!

In fact I know many people on whom your methods would fail very miserably - do not leave home every day!!! Some are old, some younger and work from home which means there could easily be even 48-72 hour periods when they do not leave home. And then there are people like me: you can knock no end on my front door and if I am not expecting visitors or a parcel I won't even bother to look at CCTV monitor yet alone walk to the door!

Also with your method you have target one property or at most handful of properties. With smart meter data access you could be targeting large areas. For example find houses which have been recently occupied but where several properties are now empty (for example by coincidence (or not)  all neighbors went on holidays at the same time. Even if targeting just specific property you cold establish not  whether they were in the last 24 hours but when they go to bed, when wake up, etc.

MWT

Oxy1 said:

In fact I know many people on whom your methods would fail very miserably

They are not 'my' methods, they are actual methods reported as being used 'in the field'... and I never said that those using them were necessarily all that bright

Anyway, far too much 'over-thinking' going on here, I'll leave you to your speculations at this point.

markin

QrizB said:

bristolleedsfan said:

c_smith said:

Having said that, based on the costs shown above, if you can avoid high usage items during the 1600 to 1830 period, the prices are still much cheaper than the current energy price cap. 

Reality is for months Octopus Agile tariff has been at or very close to 35p all day more often than not for months, these are not carefully selected dates to make a positive point, merely yesterday and today as examples.

I was careful to state:

Already happens if you choose Octopus Agile. Here's a screenshot from https://agileprices.co.uk showing the pricing on the 2nd of January this year (the prices are not typical of the whole year to date, but it shows the general idea):

Here's the past seven days, taken from https://www.energy-stats.uk

You can see cheap (admittedly not free) electricity on Sunday morning. And do bear in mind that the April cap will be around 28p/kWh.

Why are we paying wind and nuclear so much at night? The has been plenty of wind the last 7 days, with Gas around 8% at night, something must be broken.

ccluedo

Can you just switch them off if u change your mind or move to a house with one already installed?

Astria

Oxy1 said:

 If the meter is capable of transmitting usage data in real time then I would say it is quite possible that criminals will get their hands on that data also in real time.

Yes, that is possible, but you would have to be so close to the meter, and assume they have an IHD, and know UID of that IHD, it really is quite unrealistic that it would happen. Once you are that close you are not going to be trying to hack into their smart meter from outside - just look for an open window.

The information sent to energy companies isn't sent in real time and even then, the energy companies have to request it. Even if you got the data they had, there's still a lot of work to be done just to find out if someone is home. Just use more traditional techniques, it's far easier.

Gerry1

Astria said:

Oxy1 said:

 If the meter is capable of transmitting usage data in real time then I would say it is quite possible that criminals will get their hands on that data also in real time.

Even if you got the data they had, there's still a lot of work to be done just to find out if someone is home. Just use more traditional techniques, it's far easier.

Obvious not so, as demonstrated by Switchee who know all the times when their targets are likely to be in or out.

tghe-retford

Gerry1 said:

c_smith said:

I'm due to have smart meters fitted next week and now I'm thinking of cancelling them until I have more information about this.  

If you get a smart meter, it will make your electricity cripplingly expensive only at the times you actually use it !

If you get a smart meter, your electricity will be cripplingly expensive at the times you actually use it and expensive when you don't.

But I fear that if you don't have a functional smart meter when surge pricing is the norm, it will make your electricity cripplingly expensive at all times of the day. Because there is no way the energy companies will entertain people keeping mechanical meters or in time, demanding their smart meters remain dumb. The only option then is to go off-grid and become your own power plant and fuel supplier.