£350 coming from the government, is the fixing worthless now?

What_time_is_it

wittynamegoeshere said:

We've gone to great lengths to pay off our mortgage and all other debts and are now proud to be debt-free.  Everyone is now in debt to their energy supplier.

Just how convoluted and complicated do things have to get before we face up to the fact that the energy market has failed?  We can't choose supplier, the tariffs are fixed by the govt and now they're requiring us to borrow money to pay their over-inflated bills.

Just get rid of the lot, have the govt officially run it and stop the gravy train.

Yes! And millions would agree with this too.
This crisis hasn't even got started yet.

zagfles

wittynamegoeshere said:

We've gone to great lengths to pay off our mortgage and all other debts and are now proud to be debt-free.  Everyone is now in debt to their energy supplier.

Just how convoluted and complicated do things have to get before we face up to the fact that the energy market has failed?  We can't choose supplier, the tariffs are fixed by the govt and now they're requiring us to borrow money to pay their over-inflated bills.

Just get rid of the lot, have the govt officially run it and stop the gravy train.

The energy market hadn't failed, it had been working fine for decades. The problem was that some people weren't bothering to switch, and that led to lots of hand wringing that these people were paying over the odds because they CBA to shop around. So the govt responded to the hand wringing by bringing in a price cap. Prices then rose dramatically above the cap and suppliers were obliged to sell for less than wholesale costs. As usual, govt interference in the market made things worse.

What_time_is_it

zagfles said:

wittynamegoeshere said:

We've gone to great lengths to pay off our mortgage and all other debts and are now proud to be debt-free.  Everyone is now in debt to their energy supplier.

Just how convoluted and complicated do things have to get before we face up to the fact that the energy market has failed?  We can't choose supplier, the tariffs are fixed by the govt and now they're requiring us to borrow money to pay their over-inflated bills.

Just get rid of the lot, have the govt officially run it and stop the gravy train.

The energy market hadn't failed, it had been working fine for decades. The problem was that some people weren't bothering to switch, and that led to lots of hand wringing that these people were paying over the odds because they CBA to shop around. So the govt responded to the hand wringing by bringing in a price cap. Prices then rose dramatically above the cap and suppliers were obliged to sell for less than wholesale costs. As usual, govt interference in the market made things worse.

Nonsense. The whole model for being able to offer cheaper incentivised fixed rates DEPENDS ON most people not being "bothered to switch" as you put it. The energy market is reliant on lots of people paying over the odds in order to subsidise lower rates for the few. It's a scam and I am sick of it.
If everybody constantly switched to the best fixed rate deal then there would be no surplus in the business model to fund the cheaper rates in the first place.
The market has never worked.

zagfles

What_time_is_it said:

zagfles said:

wittynamegoeshere said:

We've gone to great lengths to pay off our mortgage and all other debts and are now proud to be debt-free.  Everyone is now in debt to their energy supplier.

Just how convoluted and complicated do things have to get before we face up to the fact that the energy market has failed?  We can't choose supplier, the tariffs are fixed by the govt and now they're requiring us to borrow money to pay their over-inflated bills.

Just get rid of the lot, have the govt officially run it and stop the gravy train.

The energy market hadn't failed, it had been working fine for decades. The problem was that some people weren't bothering to switch, and that led to lots of hand wringing that these people were paying over the odds because they CBA to shop around. So the govt responded to the hand wringing by bringing in a price cap. Prices then rose dramatically above the cap and suppliers were obliged to sell for less than wholesale costs. As usual, govt interference in the market made things worse.

Nonsense. The whole model for being able to offer cheaper incentivised fixed rates DEPENDS ON most people not being "bothered to switch" as you put it. The energy market is reliant on lots of people paying over the odds in order to subsidise lower rates for the few. It's a scam and I am sick of it.
If everybody constantly switched to the best fixed rate deal then there would be no surplus in the business model to fund the cheaper rates in the first place.
The market has never worked.

Are you suggesting the suppliers were making a loss from those who did switch regularly?? Why would they do that? It makes no sense. What about suppliers like Igloo etc who only had one tariff?

Astria

zagfles said:

What_time_is_it said:

zagfles said:

wittynamegoeshere said:

We've gone to great lengths to pay off our mortgage and all other debts and are now proud to be debt-free.  Everyone is now in debt to their energy supplier.

Just how convoluted and complicated do things have to get before we face up to the fact that the energy market has failed?  We can't choose supplier, the tariffs are fixed by the govt and now they're requiring us to borrow money to pay their over-inflated bills.

Just get rid of the lot, have the govt officially run it and stop the gravy train.

The energy market hadn't failed, it had been working fine for decades. The problem was that some people weren't bothering to switch, and that led to lots of hand wringing that these people were paying over the odds because they CBA to shop around. So the govt responded to the hand wringing by bringing in a price cap. Prices then rose dramatically above the cap and suppliers were obliged to sell for less than wholesale costs. As usual, govt interference in the market made things worse.

Nonsense. The whole model for being able to offer cheaper incentivised fixed rates DEPENDS ON most people not being "bothered to switch" as you put it. The energy market is reliant on lots of people paying over the odds in order to subsidise lower rates for the few. It's a scam and I am sick of it.
If everybody constantly switched to the best fixed rate deal then there would be no surplus in the business model to fund the cheaper rates in the first place.
The market has never worked.

Are you suggesting the suppliers were making a loss from those who did switch regularly?? Why would they do that? It makes no sense. What about suppliers like Igloo etc who only had one tariff?

Some yes, others probably just made less profit.

The idea is that you make less profit (sometimes a loss) in the hope that the customer stays with you after you increase your prices at the end of the low rate. This is standard market practice. The lower rates attract customers, once you've got them you can try and stitch them up with higher prices and hope they don't leave. It works until you go bust.

daveyjp

Can you opt out of the £200 buy now pay later loan? 

GingerTim

daveyjp said:

Can you opt out of the £200 buy now pay later loan? 

Not possible, as far as we know.

zagfles

wittynamegoeshere said:

The reason the govt capped it was because the suppliers were using misleading tactics to overcharge.  I was (reluctantly) happy to tart about between companies every year or so, but most frankly had better things to do with their time and/or didn't understand or couldn't be bothered with it all.  The suppliers each had lists of different tariffs, one competitive one for new customers, the rest uncompetitive and massively profitable.  You started at a decent tariff, then they banged it up and launched the next tariff for the next batch of mugs.  If you weren't watching every email and frankly were a bit of a nerd then you were going to get conned.

But it's irrelevant, the energy market has now stopped.  It looks like the future is this weird system where the govt forces us all to borrow money from our supplier, who we never chose, to pay their bill which is at a preset price.  It's all utterly bizarre, surely this can't be a long-term plan?  This is neither capitalist or communist or anything else-ist, it's just nonsense.

Same sort of thing happens with most other products. Bank accounts, insurance, cars, broadband, mobiles etc. those who bother to shop around and negotiate get a better deal, those who don't pay over the odds. There don't seem to be any calls to nationalise all insurance companies, broadband providers, car showrooms etc.

Of course you're right the energy market is now screwed, because of govt interference, ie the cap. But it was working for about 30 years.

zagfles

Astria said:

zagfles said:

What_time_is_it said:

zagfles said:

wittynamegoeshere said:

We've gone to great lengths to pay off our mortgage and all other debts and are now proud to be debt-free.  Everyone is now in debt to their energy supplier.

Just how convoluted and complicated do things have to get before we face up to the fact that the energy market has failed?  We can't choose supplier, the tariffs are fixed by the govt and now they're requiring us to borrow money to pay their over-inflated bills.

Just get rid of the lot, have the govt officially run it and stop the gravy train.

The energy market hadn't failed, it had been working fine for decades. The problem was that some people weren't bothering to switch, and that led to lots of hand wringing that these people were paying over the odds because they CBA to shop around. So the govt responded to the hand wringing by bringing in a price cap. Prices then rose dramatically above the cap and suppliers were obliged to sell for less than wholesale costs. As usual, govt interference in the market made things worse.

Nonsense. The whole model for being able to offer cheaper incentivised fixed rates DEPENDS ON most people not being "bothered to switch" as you put it. The energy market is reliant on lots of people paying over the odds in order to subsidise lower rates for the few. It's a scam and I am sick of it.
If everybody constantly switched to the best fixed rate deal then there would be no surplus in the business model to fund the cheaper rates in the first place.
The market has never worked.

Are you suggesting the suppliers were making a loss from those who did switch regularly?? Why would they do that? It makes no sense. What about suppliers like Igloo etc who only had one tariff?

Some yes, others probably just made less profit.

The idea is that you make less profit (sometimes a loss) in the hope that the customer stays with you after you increase your prices at the end of the low rate. This is standard market practice. The lower rates attract customers, once you've got them you can try and stitch them up with higher prices and hope they don't leave. It works until you go bust.

I don't think that was anywhere near as bad in the energy market as is other markets. I don't think energy companies tended to sell below cost, except now that they're forced to with the cap.

I've just switched a couple of bank accounts for the switch incentive and opened a couple of 0% credit cards for the introductory offer as well as the 0% deal. Those are clearly loss leaders. But the market for current accounts and credit cards seem to work OK. Consumers should welcome being able to get one over on big companies!

Astria

Of course you're right the energy market is now screwed, because of govt interference, ie the cap. But it was working for about 30 years.

Yes, introduce cap, force companies to beg for bailout of tax payer cash, then increase the cap to stop other companies collapsing and attempt to repay the bailout funds.

Or we could have just paid more as the price increased instead of a 54% sudden hike.