£350 coming from the government, is the fixing worthless now?

zagfles

wittynamegoeshere said:

Perhaps it will just become a standard part of conveyancing when selling a house, where the sellers have to pay off the £1000s of historic funny money Sunak loans that are owed to the pretend energy supplier that you can't change?

What happened to reality?

Some people can't cope with reality, ie that prices fluctuate differently to their income and make provision for this, so nanny state has to step in to avoid starving children headlines in the rags.

facade

zagfles said:

fiddlesticks0 said:

zagfles said:

fiddlesticks0 said:

emmajones1976 said:

My question is this. Lets say I get the £200 credit on my account, and then I "move out" and the new person comes in, who has never had to pay utilities in their life. Would they then be stung for 5 x £40 debits over the next 5 years?

It'll be linked to each individual, it would make no sense to tie it to the property. 

How would that work then? Someone got the "loan", then eg moved abroad, moved in with their partner, moved back to their parents, divorcing couple etc? How would it be repaid?

It would be far too complicated to tie it to the individual. It sounds like it'll simply be a £200 discount on all domestic electricity bills followed by 5 x £40 additions to all electricity bills.

I've no idea but tying it to the property would also throw up plenty of 'how would that work's. Either way, for most it's £500 in and 5x£40 out, so pretty meaningless.

Tying it to the property is trivially simple. The energy company just needs to apply the discount/repayments to every domestic bill.

For most it makes no difference, but it will for every graduating student, every child who moves out of their parent's house, every immigrant/emigrant, most divorcing couples etc etc. That's a lot of people over 5 years.

The easiest is that every domestic electricity account will receive a £200 credit on Oct 1st.

Then every domestic electricity account will pay a £40 surcharge each April 1st from 2023, or They could raise the SC by £40 to stop people fussing & moaning about repaying a loan.

If there are more accounts in 2023, because people have moved into new properties, then win,win for the Treasury. If you didn't have an account on Oct 1st 2022 but you do in 2023, tough, you are still paying the surcharge. If you got the credit, and manage to leave the country, go "off grid" or die before 2023 you win (unless you died, when it is rather a pyrrhic victory)

Astria

Who decided on £40 per year? and on what bill are they going to add that £40 ?

Wouldn't it be more sensible to just add 11p to the bill for each day it covers?

After the 5 years is up I wouldn't be surprised that they forget to remove it and just call it something else. Green tax sounds fun.

emmajones1976

Astria said:

Who decided on £40 per year? and on what bill are they going to add that £40 ?

Wouldn't it be more sensible to just add 11p to the bill for each day it covers?

After the 5 years is up I wouldn't be surprised that they forget to remove it and just call it something else. Green tax sounds fun.

Astria said:

Who decided on £40 per year? and on what bill are they going to add that £40 ?

Wouldn't it be more sensible to just add 11p to the bill for each day it covers?

After the 5 years is up I wouldn't be surprised that they forget to remove it and just call it something else. Green tax sounds fun.

Its already been stated its the electric bill, as thats where the credit is going.

5 x £40 much easier to administer than 1825 x £0.11p

Alexland

facade said:

Then every domestic electricity account will pay a £40 surcharge each April 1st from 2023, or They could raise the SC by £40 to stop people fussing & moaning about repaying a loan.

I expect that the suppliers will itemise it as a loan repayment to avoid their future charges looking uncompetitive and to be clear they are collecting on behalf of the Treasury and there is a balance outstanding due from the bill payer. I hope they did some consultation with the industry on if their billing software can cope with this.

facade said:

If there are more accounts in 2023, because people have moved into new properties, then win,win for the Treasury. If you didn't have an account on Oct 1st 2022 but you do in 2023, tough, you are still paying the surcharge. If you got the credit, and manage to leave the country, go "off grid" or die before 2023 you win (unless you died, when it is rather a pyrrhic victory)

Any new accounts opened after the £200 discount is applied shouldn't incur the repayment charge. It will be intersting to see how transfers between energy suppliers is handled - if the loan moves with the account or the bill payer is requited to settle it with the old supplier. I expect the balance of the loan would transfer which again will require changes at the suppliers and the government central tracking of the loan repayments. I expect if someone closes the account they will be expected to settle the loan with any other balances on the account

What_time_is_it

I think you are all really overthinking how these "loans" will be paid back.
I would bet that it'll simply be a one-off £200 reduction on all electricity accounts in October this year. Followed by a £40 charge every year for 5 years thereafter - on all electricity accounts at the allotted time each year.

(obviously the whole idea is a terrible one, and comes with either in-built unfairness or a massive amount of admin)

jimjames

spot1034 said:

fiddlesticks0 said:

emmajones1976 said:

My question is this. Lets say I get the £200 credit on my account, and then I "move out" and the new person comes in, who has never had to pay utilities in their life. Would they then be stung for 5 x £40 debits over the next 5 years?

It'll be linked to each individual, it would make no sense to tie it to the property. 

I'm not so sure about that. Are people going to be pursued for the debt  if they move in with someone else? I doubt it. 

Or they die before they need to repay it. Lots of scenarios where the payment will not be recovered from one person but could be recovered as an overall number.

Shedman

Perhaps if they put a bit more effort in collecting the fraudulent bounceback loans then they wouldn't have to claw back this £200 at all....

jimjames

zagfles said:

jimjames said:

emmajones1976 said:

Andrea15 said:

OK, make me understand, is the £200 money in the bank for you to spend as you see fit or money taken out of the bill? In other words, I assumed that the bills would be discounted at source, unless you are with fix rate. Did I misunderstand it?

I assume it will be a £200 credit applied to peoples accounts. Everyones accounts. Regardless of what rate you are currently on.

And also not until October if I read it right. Not much help for those struggling now!

It's then it'll be most needed - prices now are covered by the current cap, when the cap rises in April we'll be well into spring when bills start reducing anyway due to less heating used, it's a winter season with high prices that'll cause problems.

Not sure I agree. If prices carry on rising or the same then the October cap will rise again and that payment will only be a small amount towards a now even bigger bill.

zagfles

jimjames said:

zagfles said:

jimjames said:

emmajones1976 said:

Andrea15 said:

OK, make me understand, is the £200 money in the bank for you to spend as you see fit or money taken out of the bill? In other words, I assumed that the bills would be discounted at source, unless you are with fix rate. Did I misunderstand it?

I assume it will be a £200 credit applied to peoples accounts. Everyones accounts. Regardless of what rate you are currently on.

And also not until October if I read it right. Not much help for those struggling now!

It's then it'll be most needed - prices now are covered by the current cap, when the cap rises in April we'll be well into spring when bills start reducing anyway due to less heating used, it's a winter season with high prices that'll cause problems.

Not sure I agree. If prices carry on rising or the same then the October cap will rise again and that payment will only be a small amount towards a now even bigger bill.

Eh? I said it would be needed most in October. You "don't agree" but point out that it's October when bills will rise sigificantly?