£350 coming from the government, is the fixing worthless now?

emmajones1976

MWT said:

GingerTim said:

As far as I can see, the £200 loan only applies to electricity (presumably on the basis that everyone uses it, but not everyone uses gas).

Yes, it was confirmed in the House that the £200 would be delivered via electricity bills in all cases. 

Makes sense. Cheers.

zagfles

MattMattMattUK said:

pearl123 said:

The_Green_Hornet said:

The £200 is nothing more than a tax free loan which will be credited to everyone's electricity account in October 2022, which will be paid back through every one's electricity bills in five £40 annual instalments from 2023.

It is not a discount. It is not a bailout. It a state loan.

I think there needs to be a petition to demand that more is done. A reduction of VAT on fuel is needed. 

I and most sensible people would rather less is done, a £200 loan now, to have to pay it back is no good to anyone and any "discount" would be funded by a combination of borrowing and taxes, leading to higher taxes in the future. The best solution would be to do nothing at all.

Lots of people aren't "sensible", and have no savings and live from hand to mouth, many can't afford the massive spike in energy costs and so this loan smooths the hopefully temporary spike in wholesale energy costs. 

zagfles

wittynamegoeshere said:

I think I'm right in saying that this £200 "loan" is not a personal loan to each bill-payer.  It will be repaid by the industry as a whole, not by each individual bill-payer.

So rates may be increased as a result of this debt in future years.  It will not be a fixed lump that is added onto the standing charge or an additional monthly fee.  This means that heavy users will repay more of the debt then low users.

So it will be rewarding those who use energy responsibly, paid for by the owners of Agas and hot tubs (!).  It's an eco-tax!

In reality, it will probably never get charged as prices may never drop and will just get written off, probably sometime around the time that we work out that the UK as a whole is bankrupt.

The other thing is will people who didn't benefit from the loan have to "repay" it through their bills, eg a student in uni accomodation, or someone living with their parents, or a new immigrant to the country etc etc.

spot1034

zagfles said:

wittynamegoeshere said:

I think I'm right in saying that this £200 "loan" is not a personal loan to each bill-payer.  It will be repaid by the industry as a whole, not by each individual bill-payer.

So rates may be increased as a result of this debt in future years.  It will not be a fixed lump that is added onto the standing charge or an additional monthly fee.  This means that heavy users will repay more of the debt then low users.

So it will be rewarding those who use energy responsibly, paid for by the owners of Agas and hot tubs (!).  It's an eco-tax!

In reality, it will probably never get charged as prices may never drop and will just get written off, probably sometime around the time that we work out that the UK as a whole is bankrupt.

The other thing is will people who didn't benefit from the loan have to "repay" it through their bills, eg a student in uni accomodation, or someone living with their parents, or a new immigrant to the country etc etc.

That is always the case with public spending. To give an example, millions of people who are currently paying for HS2 won't benefit from it as they'll be dead before it's finished.

Alexland

wittynamegoeshere said:

I think I'm right in saying that this £200 "loan" is not a personal loan to each bill-payer.  It will be repaid by the industry as a whole, not by each individual bill-payer.

The repayment seems to be an an individual bill-payer level with the industry doing the collection:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/millions-to-receive-350-boost-to-help-with-rising-energy-costs

"The discount will then be automatically recovered from people’s bills in equal £40 instalments over the next five years. This will begin from 2023, when global wholesale gas prices are expected to come down.."

I'm generally in favour of the £200 smoothing but frustrated our band won't get the council tax reduction.

emmajones1976

My question is this. Lets say I get the £200 credit on my account, and then I "move out" and the new person comes in, who has never had to pay utilities in their life. Would they then be stung for 5 x £40 debits over the next 5 years?

fiddlesticks0

emmajones1976 said:

My question is this. Lets say I get the £200 credit on my account, and then I "move out" and the new person comes in, who has never had to pay utilities in their life. Would they then be stung for 5 x £40 debits over the next 5 years?

It'll be linked to each individual, it would make no sense to tie it to the property. 

spot1034

fiddlesticks0 said:

emmajones1976 said:

My question is this. Lets say I get the £200 credit on my account, and then I "move out" and the new person comes in, who has never had to pay utilities in their life. Would they then be stung for 5 x £40 debits over the next 5 years?

It'll be linked to each individual, it would make no sense to tie it to the property. 

I'm not so sure about that. Are people going to be pursued for the debt  if they move in with someone else? I doubt it. 

emmajones1976

Exactly, that would involve some level of communication between energy providers,. wont be happening.

So is someone who moves in after me going to have to pay for my £200?

zagfles

fiddlesticks0 said:

emmajones1976 said:

My question is this. Lets say I get the £200 credit on my account, and then I "move out" and the new person comes in, who has never had to pay utilities in their life. Would they then be stung for 5 x £40 debits over the next 5 years?

It'll be linked to each individual, it would make no sense to tie it to the property. 

How would that work then? Someone got the "loan", then eg moved abroad, moved in with their partner, moved back to their parents, divorcing couple etc? How would it be repaid?

It would be far too complicated to tie it to the individual. It sounds like it'll simply be a £200 discount on all domestic electricity bills followed by 5 x £40 additions to all electricity bills.