£350 coming from the government, is the fixing worthless now?

t0rt0ise

fiddlesticks0 said:

emmajones1976 said:

My question is this. Lets say I get the £200 credit on my account, and then I "move out" and the new person comes in, who has never had to pay utilities in their life. Would they then be stung for 5 x £40 debits over the next 5 years?

It'll be linked to each individual, it would make no sense to tie it to the property. 

I don't suppose they've even thought about how it will work, hence it not happening until October.

zagfles

emmajones1976 said:

Exactly, that would involve some level of communication between energy providers,. wont be happening.

So is someone who moves in after me going to have to pay for my £200?

If they paid the bills elsewhere and you move to somewhere else and pay the bills there it won't matter.

What will matter is where composition of households change. So if a couple get divorced and move to separate properties on their own, they might get one loan between them and have to repay it twice. Or if a student in uni accomodation with all bills covered moved into their own accomodation in 2023 they'd pay back a loan they never got. Or if a couple meet after having each got the loan on their own properties and move in together, they only repay the loan once even though they got 2 loans.

zagfles

spot1034 said:

zagfles said:

wittynamegoeshere said:

I think I'm right in saying that this £200 "loan" is not a personal loan to each bill-payer.  It will be repaid by the industry as a whole, not by each individual bill-payer.

So rates may be increased as a result of this debt in future years.  It will not be a fixed lump that is added onto the standing charge or an additional monthly fee.  This means that heavy users will repay more of the debt then low users.

So it will be rewarding those who use energy responsibly, paid for by the owners of Agas and hot tubs (!).  It's an eco-tax!

In reality, it will probably never get charged as prices may never drop and will just get written off, probably sometime around the time that we work out that the UK as a whole is bankrupt.

The other thing is will people who didn't benefit from the loan have to "repay" it through their bills, eg a student in uni accomodation, or someone living with their parents, or a new immigrant to the country etc etc.

That is always the case with public spending. To give an example, millions of people who are currently paying for HS2 won't benefit from it as they'll be dead before it's finished.

Isn't it paid for with borrowed money? In which case they aren't paying for it, it'll be paid for when the borrowed money is repaid, which won't be by them if they're dead.

fiddlesticks0

zagfles said:

fiddlesticks0 said:

emmajones1976 said:

My question is this. Lets say I get the £200 credit on my account, and then I "move out" and the new person comes in, who has never had to pay utilities in their life. Would they then be stung for 5 x £40 debits over the next 5 years?

It'll be linked to each individual, it would make no sense to tie it to the property. 

How would that work then? Someone got the "loan", then eg moved abroad, moved in with their partner, moved back to their parents, divorcing couple etc? How would it be repaid?

It would be far too complicated to tie it to the individual. It sounds like it'll simply be a £200 discount on all domestic electricity bills followed by 5 x £40 additions to all electricity bills.

I've no idea but tying it to the property would also throw up plenty of 'how would that work's. Either way, for most it's £500 in and 5x£40 out, so pretty meaningless.

fiddlesticks0

fiddlesticks0 said:

zagfles said:

fiddlesticks0 said:

emmajones1976 said:

My question is this. Lets say I get the £200 credit on my account, and then I "move out" and the new person comes in, who has never had to pay utilities in their life. Would they then be stung for 5 x £40 debits over the next 5 years?

It'll be linked to each individual, it would make no sense to tie it to the property. 

How would that work then? Someone got the "loan", then eg moved abroad, moved in with their partner, moved back to their parents, divorcing couple etc? How would it be repaid?

It would be far too complicated to tie it to the individual. It sounds like it'll simply be a £200 discount on all domestic electricity bills followed by 5 x £40 additions to all electricity bills.

I've no idea but tying it to the property would also throw up plenty of 'how would that work's. Either way, for most it's £500 in and 5x£40 out, so pretty meaningless.

*£200 in*

emmajones1976

wittynamegoeshere said:

Alexland said:

wittynamegoeshere said:

I think I'm right in saying that this £200 "loan" is not a personal loan to each bill-payer.  It will be repaid by the industry as a whole, not by each individual bill-payer.

The repayment seems to be an an individual bill-payer level with the industry doing the collection:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/millions-to-receive-350-boost-to-help-with-rising-energy-costs

"The discount will then be automatically recovered from people’s bills in equal £40 instalments over the next five years. This will begin from 2023, when global wholesale gas prices are expected to come down.."

I'm generally in favour of the £200 smoothing but frustrated our band won't get the council tax reduction.

I'm surprised and shocked by that.  They're giving everyone an involuntary personal loan ?!?!

I've never heard of this happening ever before in history.  Will this affect my credit rating?.

Well if you dont pay your electric bill and they report to the reference agencies, more than likely yes.

zagfles

fiddlesticks0 said:

zagfles said:

fiddlesticks0 said:

emmajones1976 said:

My question is this. Lets say I get the £200 credit on my account, and then I "move out" and the new person comes in, who has never had to pay utilities in their life. Would they then be stung for 5 x £40 debits over the next 5 years?

It'll be linked to each individual, it would make no sense to tie it to the property. 

How would that work then? Someone got the "loan", then eg moved abroad, moved in with their partner, moved back to their parents, divorcing couple etc? How would it be repaid?

It would be far too complicated to tie it to the individual. It sounds like it'll simply be a £200 discount on all domestic electricity bills followed by 5 x £40 additions to all electricity bills.

I've no idea but tying it to the property would also throw up plenty of 'how would that work's. Either way, for most it's £500 in and 5x£40 out, so pretty meaningless.

Tying it to the property is trivially simple. The energy company just needs to apply the discount/repayments to every domestic bill.

For most it makes no difference, but it will for every graduating student, every child who moves out of their parent's house, every immigrant/emigrant, most divorcing couples etc etc. That's a lot of people over 5 years.

Sea_Shell

HMOs are going to raise some interesting questions!!

zagfles

wittynamegoeshere said:

Alexland said:

wittynamegoeshere said:

I think I'm right in saying that this £200 "loan" is not a personal loan to each bill-payer.  It will be repaid by the industry as a whole, not by each individual bill-payer.

The repayment seems to be an an individual bill-payer level with the industry doing the collection:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/millions-to-receive-350-boost-to-help-with-rising-energy-costs

"The discount will then be automatically recovered from people’s bills in equal £40 instalments over the next five years. This will begin from 2023, when global wholesale gas prices are expected to come down.."

I'm generally in favour of the £200 smoothing but frustrated our band won't get the council tax reduction.

I'm surprised and shocked by that.  They're giving everyone an involuntary personal loan ?!?!

I've never heard of this happening ever before in history.  Will this affect my credit rating?  Who pays if I move house or change supplier?  This is nuts, they're making up the rules as we go now.

I know that yesterday the govt stopped Ofgem organising a deal where the suppliers would have borrowed from the banks.  Supposedly the govt didn't want a debt appearing on the supplier's balance sheets, presumably putting them at risk of going bust.  Some suppliers must have friends in very high places.

If the suppliers had borrowed from the banks then customers would end up paying the interest. The govt can borrow at better rates. Plus if the suppliers went bust then the banks would probably be accused of irresponsible lending as usual, everyone loves blaming bankers. Also why should supplier borrow money to give customers a discount on their bill?

fiddlesticks0

Will this affect my credit rating?.

It wouldn't affect credit ratings as it's not officially a loan - it's a credit followed by 5xdebits in order to smooth out the increases. What a mess, and it's currently predicted it'll be another 20% increase to the energy cap next time around, in October.