Bad advice for funeral plot

Manxman_in_exile

porkisnotmeat said:

Raspberry_Queen said:

Ergates said:

Just to be clear:

You're asking if you could reclaim the cost for purchasing the plot back in 1986?   The plot that your parents buried your grandparents ashes in?

Clearly not.  Your parents bought a funeral plot, then used it - your grandparents remains are in it.

Needlessly rude. If you have nothing nice to say then don't say it. This is supposed to be a friendly forum for advice. 

Just because you don't like the response (usually because it isn't what people want to hear) doesn't mean it isn't "nice."  It's neither "nice" or "nasty" because it just is what it is.

The biggest downfall of this forum is the idea that everyone has to be "nice", which appears to be interpreted as "tell me what I want to hear or else you're being mean."

The world doesn't work like that and although you can probably get the mods to delete posts and ban people if that's what you want, it doesn't make them wrong, or "not nice."

Well said... 

Manxman_in_exile

Torry_Quine said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

Are people here saying that you can't dispose of deceased's ashes as you like?!?!

My wife and I have said we want our ashes scattered at a particular location.  Can't you do that?  I certainly helped scatter my mother's ashes at her favourite location at home in the Isle of Man.  Admittedly the law might be different over there, but would it have been unlawful or illegal to do that in the UK?

And what's to stop someone's ashes being scattered over an existing grave?  Who would know you'd done it? I don't understand the problem.  (Unless people are wanting to bury ashes in an urn... but why would you?).

Apologies if the above seems a bit insensitive, but I'm at a loss to understand the issue surrounding ashes.  I could understand that authorities definitely don't want you burying corpses clandestinely in existing graves - no matter who owns it - but scattering ashes?

My MIL's ashes were scattered on her parents grave. it never occurred to us we needed permission. I scattered my husband's ashes on a local hill top again without checking with anyone.

In Scotland you and your inheritors own the lair (burial plot) in perpetuity.
 

Yes.  I can't see the problem with scattering ashes on an existing family grave.  The only issue I could see would be if you wanted to dig a hole and "bury" the ashes while still in the urn.  But why would you do that?  Surely you keep the urn after the scattering.  (Or at least I'm pretty certain we kept my mum's urn - it was nearly 40 years ago now).

MobileSaver

Raspberry_Queen said:

We couldn't and wouldn't illegally put the ashes there, as soon as you bury them they officially become a body. 

The private owners of the graveyard may have rules about scattering ashes but it's news to me that there are any UK laws regarding this - are you sure about that?

If that's true then there's a recently buried body in my grounds!

(We have extensive grounds which were maintained by a gent long before I bought the place. A few years back we were contacted by his family, he'd passed away and had loved working here so much that his final wish was for his ashes to be scattered in the grounds.)

Thrugelmir

MobileSaver said:

Raspberry_Queen said:

We couldn't and wouldn't illegally put the ashes there, as soon as you bury them they officially become a body. 

The private owners of the graveyard may have rules about scattering ashes but it's news to me that there are any UK laws regarding this - are you sure about that?

To scatter ashes over somebody elses land you need their permission i.e. the Council. Ok over your own privately owned land. 

user1977

Manxman_in_exile said:

Torry_Quine said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

Are people here saying that you can't dispose of deceased's ashes as you like?!?!

My wife and I have said we want our ashes scattered at a particular location.  Can't you do that?  I certainly helped scatter my mother's ashes at her favourite location at home in the Isle of Man.  Admittedly the law might be different over there, but would it have been unlawful or illegal to do that in the UK?

And what's to stop someone's ashes being scattered over an existing grave?  Who would know you'd done it? I don't understand the problem.  (Unless people are wanting to bury ashes in an urn... but why would you?).

Apologies if the above seems a bit insensitive, but I'm at a loss to understand the issue surrounding ashes.  I could understand that authorities definitely don't want you burying corpses clandestinely in existing graves - no matter who owns it - but scattering ashes?

My MIL's ashes were scattered on her parents grave. it never occurred to us we needed permission. I scattered my husband's ashes on a local hill top again without checking with anyone.

In Scotland you and your inheritors own the lair (burial plot) in perpetuity.
 

The only issue I could see would be if you wanted to dig a hole and "bury" the ashes while still in the urn.  But why would you do that?  

No idea, but some people do (and it sounds like that's what happened in the OP's case).

Sandtree

Manxman_in_exile said:
(Unless people are wanting to bury ashes in an urn... but why would you?).

A quick google shows that burying the ashes, irrespective of urn, rather than scattering them, is what brings all the other regulations into play. To scatter you need the land owners permission or if in water then the environment agency has some rules

My mother has the other half buried, without an urn, which is what would have triggered the problem it seems as you need a  Certificate of Authority for Burial from the Register Office. 

MobileSaver

Manxman_in_exile said:

The only issue I could see would be if you wanted to dig a hole and "bury" the ashes while still in the urn.  But why would you do that? 

Sandtree said:

A quick google shows that burying the ashes, irrespective of urn, rather than scattering them,

I have to be honest that until today I didn't even realise that burying ashes was a thing; I thought ashes were always scattered or kept on display in an urn.

As @Manxman_in_exile said, I can't see the point of a cremation and then burying the remains but perhaps some people have different beliefs or traditions?

To the OP, it's not clear how the graveyard knew about the grandparent's ashes if your parents buried them unofficially? Regardless, without evidence of exactly what your dad bought and agreed to you have practically no chance of any refund, particularly as your dad used the plot to bury the remains of your grandparents whether officially or not.

sheramber

What your family agreed to will be documented on the papers they were given at the time. As you don't have them you do not know what they agreed to. The rules about what you can bury in the plot may well be detailed in them.

If you pursue the matter the owners of the graveyard may pursue for the unofficial burial of the ashes.

theoretica

Raspberry_Queen said:

... It was council owned in 1986 when he bought it, but now is privately owned. ... They were also not advised that as non-parishioners, they would have to pay 4x the cost for everything.

I would not be surprised if the charging scheme, and extra costs for non-parishioners, had changed several times in the last 35 years.

Sandtree

MobileSaver said:

As @Manxman_in_exile said, I can't see the point of a cremation and then burying the remains but perhaps some people have different beliefs or traditions?

One to point at the Catholics:
Instruction Ad resurgendum !!!!!! Christo regarding the burial of the deceasedand the conservation of the ashes in the case of cremation (15 August 2016) (vatican.va)

You should be buried but if you're going to be burnt then the ashes should be honoured in the same way as a body and so buried in a sanctified place.