overcharged by electrician

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

melb said:

andyhop said:

Common sense if a trades arrives after normal working hours that it’s been classed as a emergency and as such deems a premium rate. We are not sat at the phone waiting for you to call ! 

You sound like a absolute nightmare to deal with, we can’t be expected to keep endless amounts of stock in the average van, nor can we be expected to take you on your diagnosis, at the end of the day we have probably forgotten more than you think you know . 

Pay the man, dealing with the public as a tradesman is difficult enough at the best of times without dealing with folk who think they know what a job should take and cost . 

if a tradesman DECIDES to arrive at a time convenient to them that is their choice but don't expect me to bear the cost.  if I ring up to enquire about a job in the morning and they decide they will attend late afternoon/evening that is up to them.  Who mentioned we had diagnosed the fault?  We just said the charger was dead.  We offered no guess as to what had caused this.  This is why we called an electrician.

That's not really correct, if you call a plumber out at 2am you expect to pay over the odds (although should still be told what the costs are). 

Your opening posts states the bill for the time was £62.40 (including VAT) an hour but then says you are being charged for out of hours.

The question is, sorry if you've answered it already, what hourly rate was you given before the job started? 

Section62

melb said:

yes that is the part that the electrician has confirmed in an email that he fitted

So the priority should be on finding out why the electrician has fitted a simple disconnector, rather than an RCD as you were expecting.

In terms of having to go away to buy parts there is less justification for doing that to obtain a standard disconnector, rather than needing to get a RCD or RCBO of a very specific type.

Again, there's no specific rule saying electricians should carry around a stock of parts, but an electrician working without a spare standard disconnector in their toolbag (or van) would cause me to raise an eyebrow.

MobileSaver

melb said:

Section62 said:

NSG666 said:

For info I've just checked on the SF website and the cheapest Wylex switch they have in stock and might possibly be suitable is £60.....

https://www.screwfix.com/p/wylex-nh-nm-100a-dp-main-switch-disconnector/53010

This^ would fit the desription and price (at Screwfix) of £7.59, but leaves other questions such as whether this is the part fitted, and if it is the only part the electrician used.

[some people will jump ahead and say a main switch/disconnector doesn't have the same function as an RCD, but we don't know whether the RCD function has been provided in a different (yet still fully compliant) way.]

yes that is the part that the electrician has confirmed in an email that he fitted

I can't believe it's taken eight pages to discover that the £7.59 Screwfix item was the actual part fitted!

You previously said an RCBO needed replacing and at one point that a new RCD had been fitted; this new admission changes things because that Screwfix part is a simple switch and is neither a RCD or a RCBO.

As @Section62 hinted at, RCD/RCBOs are fitted for a reason (to instantly "trip" if there's a fault) and that switch does neither. Quite apart from the potential safety concerns of using the EV charger without an RCBO there's also the more practical aspect and inconvenience of any fault with the EV charger could take out your entire house electrics depending on how your consumer unit is set up. (One of my pet peeves is whenever we have a power cut I have to then go around and manually reset the clocks on our six ovens. )

None of this changes the fundamental point on how much an electrician can charge for a part but it does bring into question their competency and whether they've actually done what you asked them to do (and hence whether the bill is appropriate.)

melb

MobileSaver said:

melb said:

Section62 said:

NSG666 said:

For info I've just checked on the SF website and the cheapest Wylex switch they have in stock and might possibly be suitable is £60.....

https://www.screwfix.com/p/wylex-nh-nm-100a-dp-main-switch-disconnector/53010

This^ would fit the desription and price (at Screwfix) of £7.59, but leaves other questions such as whether this is the part fitted, and if it is the only part the electrician used.

[some people will jump ahead and say a main switch/disconnector doesn't have the same function as an RCD, but we don't know whether the RCD function has been provided in a different (yet still fully compliant) way.]

yes that is the part that the electrician has confirmed in an email that he fitted

I can't believe it's taken eight pages to discover that the £7.59 Screwfix item was the actual part fitted!

You previously said an RCBO needed replacing and at one point that a new RCD had been fitted; this new admission changes things because that Screwfix part is a simple switch and is neither a RCD or a RCBO.

As @Section62 hinted at, RCD/RCBOs are fitted for a reason (to instantly "trip" if there's a fault) and that switch does neither. Quite apart from the potential safety concerns of using the EV charger without an RCBO there's also the more practical aspect and inconvenience of any fault with the EV charger could take out your entire house electrics depending on how your consumer unit is set up. (One of my pet peeves is whenever we have a power cut I have to then go around and manually reset the clocks on our six ovens. )

None of this changes the fundamental point on how much an electrician can charge for a part but it does bring into question their competency and whether they've actually done what you asked them to do (and hence whether the bill is appropriate.)

it's not an admission!  I've not been misleading or trying to hide anything. I assumed he had fitted a replacement part which is what the electrician who attended the house said he was doing.  I have got my terminology confused

GDB2222

melb said:

MobileSaver said:

melb said:

Section62 said:

NSG666 said:

For info I've just checked on the SF website and the cheapest Wylex switch they have in stock and might possibly be suitable is £60.....

https://www.screwfix.com/p/wylex-nh-nm-100a-dp-main-switch-disconnector/53010

This^ would fit the desription and price (at Screwfix) of £7.59, but leaves other questions such as whether this is the part fitted, and if it is the only part the electrician used.

[some people will jump ahead and say a main switch/disconnector doesn't have the same function as an RCD, but we don't know whether the RCD function has been provided in a different (yet still fully compliant) way.]

yes that is the part that the electrician has confirmed in an email that he fitted

I can't believe it's taken eight pages to discover that the £7.59 Screwfix item was the actual part fitted!

You previously said an RCBO needed replacing and at one point that a new RCD had been fitted; this new admission changes things because that Screwfix part is a simple switch and is neither a RCD or a RCBO.

As @Section62 hinted at, RCD/RCBOs are fitted for a reason (to instantly "trip" if there's a fault) and that switch does neither. Quite apart from the potential safety concerns of using the EV charger without an RCBO there's also the more practical aspect and inconvenience of any fault with the EV charger could take out your entire house electrics depending on how your consumer unit is set up. (One of my pet peeves is whenever we have a power cut I have to then go around and manually reset the clocks on our six ovens. )

None of this changes the fundamental point on how much an electrician can charge for a part but it does bring into question their competency and whether they've actually done what you asked them to do (and hence whether the bill is appropriate.)

it's not an admission!  I've not been misleading or trying to hide anything. I assumed he had fitted a replacement part which is what the electrician who attended the house said he was doing.  I have got my terminology confused

If this is going to court, you'll need some sort of report from an electrician. If there's so much confusion about which part has been fitted, it would be sensible to get someone in to look at it ASAP to make sure it's safe. They can do a report for you at the same time. 

You mentioned in another post that you succeeded in court on 3 other cases. However, those were much bigger cases. It would hardly be worth anybody's time to go to court over a £250 bill. You presumably agree some of that is valid, so the true amount in dispute is far less. You really need to sort out how much you think the job is really worth.

Mistral001

He did what you instructed  him to do at more or less the going rate for the job.  You have little chance of winning any court case you bring.  

Risteard

Section62 said:

melb said:

yes that is the part that the electrician has confirmed in an email that he fitted

So the priority should be on finding out why the electrician has fitted a simple disconnector, rather than an RCD as you were expecting.

In terms of having to go away to buy parts there is less justification for doing that to obtain a standard disconnector, rather than needing to get a RCD or RCBO of a very specific type.

Again, there's no specific rule saying electricians should carry around a stock of parts, but an electrician working without a spare standard disconnector in their toolbag (or van) would cause me to raise an eyebrow.

I don't make a habit of carrying spare switch disconnectors as there isn't a high failure rate with them. I keep a number of brands in stock in the garage, but I can't carry anywhere near all the stock I have with me. Wouldn't be able to find anything then and would use a tonne of diesel. I'm struggling to understand why a switch disconnector (isolator/main switch) was fitted in this instance however. Presumably RCD protection breaking all live conductors (i.e. all phases and the neutral) was provided upstream, but I still wouldn't be comfortable fitting non-approved parts into the EVSE.

GDB2222

Risteard said:

Section62 said:

melb said:

yes that is the part that the electrician has confirmed in an email that he fitted

So the priority should be on finding out why the electrician has fitted a simple disconnector, rather than an RCD as you were expecting.

In terms of having to go away to buy parts there is less justification for doing that to obtain a standard disconnector, rather than needing to get a RCD or RCBO of a very specific type.

Again, there's no specific rule saying electricians should carry around a stock of parts, but an electrician working without a spare standard disconnector in their toolbag (or van) would cause me to raise an eyebrow.

I don't make a habit of carrying spare switch disconnectors as there isn't a high failure rate with them. I keep a number of brands in stock in the garage, but I can't carry anywhere near all the stock I have with me. Wouldn't be able to find anything then and would use a tonne of diesel. I'm struggling to understand why a switch disconnector (isolator/main switch) was fitted in this instance however. Presumably RCD protection breaking all live conductors (i.e. all phases and the neutral) was provided upstream, but I still wouldn't be comfortable fitting non-approved parts into the EVSE.

I don't think the OP is very technical, so I think some of the details are getting a bit muddled. 

NSG666

GDB2222 said:

Risteard said:

Section62 said:

melb said:

yes that is the part that the electrician has confirmed in an email that he fitted

So the priority should be on finding out why the electrician has fitted a simple disconnector, rather than an RCD as you were expecting.

In terms of having to go away to buy parts there is less justification for doing that to obtain a standard disconnector, rather than needing to get a RCD or RCBO of a very specific type.

Again, there's no specific rule saying electricians should carry around a stock of parts, but an electrician working without a spare standard disconnector in their toolbag (or van) would cause me to raise an eyebrow.

I don't make a habit of carrying spare switch disconnectors as there isn't a high failure rate with them. I keep a number of brands in stock in the garage, but I can't carry anywhere near all the stock I have with me. Wouldn't be able to find anything then and would use a tonne of diesel. I'm struggling to understand why a switch disconnector (isolator/main switch) was fitted in this instance however. Presumably RCD protection breaking all live conductors (i.e. all phases and the neutral) was provided upstream, but I still wouldn't be comfortable fitting non-approved parts into the EVSE.

I don't think the OP is very technical, so I think some of the details are getting a bit muddled. 

If the OP had posted a photo of the invoice (all personal and company details redacted) this whole thread might have taken a more informed direction not least exploring the possibility that there remains a far bigger issue than a few quid! 

melb

I don't have the technical knowledge to upload photos I'm afraid but the invoice just said to attend property to attend faulty EV charger £156.  Materials £60.  £216 + VAT £43.20.  Sum total £259.20.  Details of the part fitted have been drip fed via email afterwards.  Apparently he also fitted an RCBO in the cellar (he was down there so little time we thought it was just to turn electrics off and back on) so it appears it should be safe.