overcharged by electrician

grumbler

koalakoala said:

melb said:

I agree with paying for someone's skills and expertise but when they delibererately maneouvre you into a position where they can claim enhanced fees for 'out of hours work' which we did not request, that is a totally different matter. If they choose to send someone at 5.30 that is up to them but don't expect us to pay extra for it.  Anyway he is now threatening CCJs, a £35 a week extra charge plus 7% late payment charges (on an invoice we received a week ago) I think we can safely assume he is not your average tradesman.

And I think we can safely assume you are not your average customer ..............................

Yes, the average customer, unfortunately, feels uncomfortable to question both the quality and the charges, thus supporting this culture of inflated charges (often for extremely poor quality).

Section62

grumbler said:

koalakoala said:

melb said:

I agree with paying for someone's skills and expertise but when they delibererately maneouvre you into a position where they can claim enhanced fees for 'out of hours work' which we did not request, that is a totally different matter. If they choose to send someone at 5.30 that is up to them but don't expect us to pay extra for it.  Anyway he is now threatening CCJs, a £35 a week extra charge plus 7% late payment charges (on an invoice we received a week ago) I think we can safely assume he is not your average tradesman.

And I think we can safely assume you are not your average customer ..............................

Yes, the average customer, unfortunately, feels uncomfortable to question both the quality and the charges, thus supporting this culture of inflated charges (often for extremely poor quality).

The time to question both the quality and the charges is before engaging a tradesperson, not after you get the bill for a satisfactorily completed job.

The culture of getting a bill, then questioning the validity of it, doesn't help average customers in the long run.

guestman

BooJewels said:

I saw a locksmith on TV, donkeys years ago, who specialised in heritage and unusual locks. He relayed a tale about doing an emergency call out to a very old property with a jammed lock. He fixed it easily and turned to the proprietor and said "that'll be 60 pounds please" and she was horrified and said "you've only been here ten minutes!"  To which he replied "yes, but it's taken 35 years of practice and experience to get to the stage where I can do it in 10 minutes - that's what you're paying for madam".

I thought that was fabulous and I've tried to keep it in mind at all times when dealing with skilled people.  The more skilled someone is, the easier they tend make it look and the quicker they are.  Different skill sets is exactly the core principle of how the first societies were formed.

this quote really annoys me, my question to him would be, so the 35 years you worked for free yes and now because you worked for free for 35 years you can now charge big numbers? skills come with time and all that time doing the job hes already been paid for.

Section62

guestman said:

BooJewels said:

I saw a locksmith on TV, donkeys years ago, who specialised in heritage and unusual locks. He relayed a tale about doing an emergency call out to a very old property with a jammed lock. He fixed it easily and turned to the proprietor and said "that'll be 60 pounds please" and she was horrified and said "you've only been here ten minutes!"  To which he replied "yes, but it's taken 35 years of practice and experience to get to the stage where I can do it in 10 minutes - that's what you're paying for madam".

I thought that was fabulous and I've tried to keep it in mind at all times when dealing with skilled people.  The more skilled someone is, the easier they tend make it look and the quicker they are.  Different skill sets is exactly the core principle of how the first societies were formed.

this quote really annoys me, my question to him would be, so the 35 years you worked for free yes and now because you worked for free for 35 years you can now charge big numbers? skills come with time and all that time doing the job hes already been paid for.

I think you've missed the point.

£60 is a pittance compared to buying a replacement door because a less competent person has smashed it trying to gain access.  As with any professional, you buy their knowledge and experience, not just their time. You aren't paying for the time spent accumulating that knowledge and experience, just the application of it in solving your particular problem.

If I were the locksmith, in reply to your question, I'd offer to lend you a sledgehammer for free.

GDB2222

But, surely there is no real argument about the electrician’s hourly rate. £60 an hour is well within the range that is normally charged. At least it is here.

The only question is whether 3 hours is a reasonable time to take for the job? 

And, that depends on whether the electrician should have picked up the part earlier in the day? I’d say no, that’s not usual, but the OP is adamant that he should, although what she bases that on is hard to say. It’s normal to go on site to diagnose the problem, and only then get the parts.  It’s relevant, because the electrician was away for two hours getting the part, which was two thirds of the total time spent.

melb

just to clarify a couple of things - and yes I have copied this from the other board.  

the sequence of events:
phone call to electrician mid-morning asking if someone can come and help diagnose a fault with our rolec ev charger which is dead (therefore as no electricity it is not a danger to life I assume).
electrician rings back at lunchtime to say his electrician can call some time after 4.30 which we say is fine.
5.30 electrician arrives and says he needs to replace the rcbo in the charger and is going to get one
7.30 he returns and replaces the part
he replaces the part with one that costs £7.59 from screwfix
we then receive the invoice.  The electrician says this is an out of hours call. (his decision, not ours)
how could we possibly have obtained a quote for the work on the phone when we had no idea what work/part might be needed? the electrician on the other hand could have formed an educated guess that the part that had failed is the one that has a bad reputation for doing so (after all they install rolec chargers)
All the research we had done in the couple of days beforehand said it was a cheap part that took less than an hour to fit.
I agree we should have asked what their hourly rate was but that was the only thing that could be quoted. We have learnt a lesson there.
He is now threatening to come and remove the part he fitted plus even more extra late charges.  We have told him that if he trespasses he will incur charges.
Still no sign of the recording.  I hope he does take us to court.  We have seen off barristers in 2 court cases -one as defendants in a boundary dispute in full fast-track court (£11,000 legal fees for the other side) and took a builder to court and were awarded £7,000 (don't ask me how as the limit at the time was £5,000) and entered pre-court mediation with someone who sold us a duff car and got refunded most of the cost of the car.  Each time we represented ourselves and told the truth.

DB1904

melb said:

just to clarify a couple of things - and yes I have copied this from the other board.  

the sequence of events:
phone call to electrician mid-morning asking if someone can come and help diagnose a fault with our rolec ev charger which is dead (therefore as no electricity it is not a danger to life I assume).
electrician rings back at lunchtime to say his electrician can call some time after 4.30 which we say is fine.
5.30 electrician arrives and says he needs to replace the rcbo in the charger and is going to get one
7.30 he returns and replaces the part
he replaces the part with one that costs £7.59 from screwfix
we then receive the invoice.  The electrician says this is an out of hours call. (his decision, not ours)
how could we possibly have obtained a quote for the work on the phone when we had no idea what work/part might be needed? the electrician on the other hand could have formed an educated guess that the part that had failed is the one that has a bad reputation for doing so (after all they install rolec chargers)
All the research we had done in the couple of days beforehand said it was a cheap part that took less than an hour to fit.
I agree we should have asked what their hourly rate was but that was the only thing that could be quoted. We have learnt a lesson there.
He is now threatening to come and remove the part he fitted plus even more extra late charges.  We have told him that if he trespasses he will incur charges.
Still no sign of the recording.  I hope he does take us to court.  We have seen off barristers in 2 court cases -one as defendants in a boundary dispute in full fast-track court (£11,000 legal fees for the other side) and took a builder to court and were awarded £7,000 (don't ask me how as the limit at the time was £5,000) and entered pre-court mediation with someone who sold us a duff car and got refunded most of the cost of the car.  Each time we represented ourselves and told the truth.

Well you aren't going to get out of this one without paying. 

Section62

melb said:

he replaces the part with one that costs £7.59 from screwfix

£7.59 for an RCD?

melb said:

We have told him that if he trespasses he will incur charges.

On what basis?  If you've got the law on your side (I make no comment on whether you have or not) then you may lose it if you make claims you aren't entilted to do.  I'm guessing there is nothing in the contract/T&C's you have with the electrician which entitles you to make such charges?

dil1976

If you was so certain of the faulty part why didn't you buy it and have them just fit it for you? Would of saved you so much hassle

Risteard

melb said:

just to clarify a couple of things - and yes I have copied this from the other board.  

the sequence of events:
phone call to electrician mid-morning asking if someone can come and help diagnose a fault with our rolec ev charger which is dead (therefore as no electricity it is not a danger to life I assume).
electrician rings back at lunchtime to say his electrician can call some time after 4.30 which we say is fine.
5.30 electrician arrives and says he needs to replace the rcbo in the charger and is going to get one
7.30 he returns and replaces the part
he replaces the part with one that costs £7.59 from screwfix
we then receive the invoice.  The electrician says this is an out of hours call. (his decision, not ours)
how could we possibly have obtained a quote for the work on the phone when we had no idea what work/part might be needed? the electrician on the other hand could have formed an educated guess that the part that had failed is the one that has a bad reputation for doing so (after all they install rolec chargers)
All the research we had done in the couple of days beforehand said it was a cheap part that took less than an hour to fit.
I agree we should have asked what their hourly rate was but that was the only thing that could be quoted. We have learnt a lesson there.
He is now threatening to come and remove the part he fitted plus even more extra late charges.  We have told him that if he trespasses he will incur charges.
Still no sign of the recording.  I hope he does take us to court.  We have seen off barristers in 2 court cases -one as defendants in a boundary dispute in full fast-track court (£11,000 legal fees for the other side) and took a builder to court and were awarded £7,000 (don't ask me how as the limit at the time was £5,000) and entered pre-court mediation with someone who sold us a duff car and got refunded most of the cost of the car.  Each time we represented ourselves and told the truth.

I see no ROLEC products on the Screwfix website, let alone ROLEC double pole RCBOs.

I would not expect to find one for anything near the price you have quoted (£7.59). I would also expect a markup on the materials prices paid by a contractor to cover their costs/warranties etc.