Hierarchy of Road Users - 29th January 2022

molerat

ArchLen said:

Car_54 said:

... learners are by and large not now taught to use the parking brake, this would probably result in a fail if they did not have an automatic parking brake because they probably won't react in time to prevent a pedestrian or vehicle behind being rolled into. 

That is one example but there are many more. 

What makes you think that?
Do you have recent experience of lessons and/or tests?

Yes, over 2 decades of experience in the industry. A good instructor will still teach appropriate use of the parking brake but the majority will not as DVSA no longer consider it's lack of use as a fault. 

Interestingly this is something I commented on in the car recently after having sat behind a couple of driving school cars sitting on the footbrake whilst at traffic lights.

Grumpy_chap

I hope this constant "giving way" does not become too regular.  I was just out for a walk, crossing at a mini-roundabout, stopped on the centre island when the nutter in the car on the roundabout slammed on the anchors to let me cross.  I felt like a little old lady being helped across the road even if she didn't want to go.

Username03725

Deleted_User said:

A rider will take the position they feel safest in - any dangerous road, the guidance (as per the HC now) is 1m from the kerb i.e. primary.

A minor correction if I may. Around one metre out from the kerb is referred to as riding in secondary. Primary is to ride in the middle of the lane, guidance & advice as already covered.

Secondary or primary is down to the cyclist, and should be based on what's safest for the cyclist without being a hindrance.

Car_54

Grumpy_chap said:

I hope this constant "giving way" does not become too regular.  I was just out for a walk, crossing at a mini-roundabout, stopped on the centre island when the nutter in the car on the roundabout slammed on the anchors to let me cross.  I felt like a little old lady being helped across the road even if she didn't want to go.

A mini-roundabout doesn't have an island, only a blob of paint. Don't stand there unless you have a deathwish.

[Deleted User]

NBLondon said:

zagfles said:

Hopefully this will lead to more sensible use of traffic lights/pedestrian crossings. I use a couple of crossroads regularly which have pedestrian crossings, currently when pedestrians press the crossing button all traffic gets a red light while they get a green man. Now they'll be able to give traffic the green light at the same time as giving pedestrians a green man going in the same direction, since turning motorists will have to give way to pedestrians. This happens in most European countries.

I think that's rather optimistic...    I think filters are safer - as long as all involved pay attention.

And will the hierarchy actually be applied to the type of anti-social cyclists who ride through red lights at pedestrian crossings or think zebra crossings are just public artworks?

Sigh

Given you're in or from London, you would presumably be aware of TfL. A study they did of all incidents over 10 years where someone was killed or seriously injured as a result of a road user jumping a red light showed 71% were hit by cars, just 4% by bikes (typically a person is killed by a bike on average slightly less than once a year). Not stopping for red lights, zebras, even ignoring give way on roundabouts etc is routine with drivers, along with drunk driving, driving while using the phone etc. 40 pedestrians are killed, on average, every year on the pavement alone by drivers.

In the hierarchy of things, it's based on harm, a bike can easily stop and swerve, so while I don't condone red light jumping riders (BOBs) / cyclists, they're not the real risk to pedestrians

neilmcl

molerat said:

ArchLen said:

Car_54 said:

... learners are by and large not now taught to use the parking brake, this would probably result in a fail if they did not have an automatic parking brake because they probably won't react in time to prevent a pedestrian or vehicle behind being rolled into. 

That is one example but there are many more. 

What makes you think that?
Do you have recent experience of lessons and/or tests?

Yes, over 2 decades of experience in the industry. A good instructor will still teach appropriate use of the parking brake but the majority will not as DVSA no longer consider it's lack of use as a fault. 

Interestingly this is something I commented on in the car recently after having sat behind a couple of driving school cars sitting on the footbrake whilst at traffic lights.

Could they have been in an Automatic though?

Car_54

neilmcl said:

molerat said:

ArchLen said:

Car_54 said:

... learners are by and large not now taught to use the parking brake, this would probably result in a fail if they did not have an automatic parking brake because they probably won't react in time to prevent a pedestrian or vehicle behind being rolled into. 

That is one example but there are many more. 

What makes you think that?
Do you have recent experience of lessons and/or tests?

Yes, over 2 decades of experience in the industry. A good instructor will still teach appropriate use of the parking brake but the majority will not as DVSA no longer consider it's lack of use as a fault. 

Interestingly this is something I commented on in the car recently after having sat behind a couple of driving school cars sitting on the footbrake whilst at traffic lights.

Could they have been in an Automatic though?

Why would that make a difference?

Grumpy_chap

Car_54 said:

Grumpy_chap said:

I hope this constant "giving way" does not become too regular.  I was just out for a walk, crossing at a mini-roundabout, stopped on the centre island when the nutter in the car on the roundabout slammed on the anchors to let me cross.  I felt like a little old lady being helped across the road even if she didn't want to go.

A mini-roundabout doesn't have an island, only a blob of paint. Don't stand there unless you have a deathwish.

You can have both - I was on the island next to the bollard in the foreground.

Jenni_D

I suspect when you said "cross at a mini-roundabout" people read it as "crossing on a mini-roundabout".  

Car_54

Grumpy_chap said:

Car_54 said:

Grumpy_chap said:

I hope this constant "giving way" does not become too regular.  I was just out for a walk, crossing at a mini-roundabout, stopped on the centre island when the nutter in the car on the roundabout slammed on the anchors to let me cross.  I felt like a little old lady being helped across the road even if she didn't want to go.

A mini-roundabout doesn't have an island, only a blob of paint. Don't stand there unless you have a deathwish.

You can have both - I was on the island next to the bollard in the foreground.

But you said "centre island" ...

That "mini" roundabout doesn't comply with the regs (which forbid a kerb in the centre), but that's not unusual.