Holiday going ahead but country now wont allow unvaccinated - am I eligible for a refund/free change

jimi_man

bargainbetty said:

MiserlyMartin said:

Covid 19 is now just a cold, and the pandemic is virtually over as we all get herd immunity to this cold. Restrictions and even testing are all ramping down. It's now time to return to normal and live with it - not lockdown and restrict peoples movement every 5 minutes. That makes vaccinations (which only last 6 months before the immunity wanes anyway) irrelevant to this discussion.

I tested positive on 1st December. I am still coughing hard enough to retch on a daily basis thanks to long Covid. I am lucky, I was vaccinated so I didn't end up in hospital. It's certainly not just a cold. 

Literally everything you said is wrong in global terms. Many countries are still having extreme problems and vaccination is what is going to help get to the levels of immunity where the new variants are less common. Vaccines help us get back to normal, so having them will help avoid restrictions. 

To be fair, Omicron was not really prevalent in the UK on the 1st December so it's likely you had Delta, which is more severe. Whilst I don't necessarily agree with the whole of MiserlyMartin's post, it seems to be generally agreed by most scientists that Omicron is far less severe than the previous variants. Vaccinations are a part of the equation as they seem to reduce the severity further. I had Omicron over Christmas and just had a mild cold and for me the side effects from the booster were worse than the effects from Covid. 

We do need to learn to live it however this will take time to adjust. Also different parts of the globes are having Omicron waves at different times, so we can't all immediately return to normal. However there is no doubt that whilst some countries are increasing restrictions to cope with Omicron, others seem to be releasing them slightly as they are finding out that the severity is not what it was before.

A glimmer of sunshine. 

sheramber

My DIL was in bed with a binding headache and fatigue or 5 days after Boxing Day. She then developed  a scratchy throat and terrible cough which she still has. She has had double vaccination and booster.

At the same time my grandson tested positive but he only had a  scratchy throat.

After 10 days my SIL tested positive. He had one day of sneezing violently but otherwise just a bit out of sorts. He is working from home.

So, you were lucky to have a mild cold. Spare  thought for those who suffer much more.

jimi_man

sheramber said:

My DIL was in bed with a binding headache and fatigue or 5 days after Boxing Day. She then developed  a scratchy throat and terrible cough which she still has. She has had double vaccination and booster.

At the same time my grandson tested positive but he only had a  scratchy throat.

After 10 days my SIL tested positive. He had one day of sneezing violently but otherwise just a bit out of sorts. He is working from home.

So, you were lucky to have a mild cold. Spare  thought for those who suffer much more.

I think - anecdotally, but also from reports in the news - that a mild cold tends to be the more common experience and that she was probably unlucky to have more severe symptoms. However, as you say, a friend's wife caught on the same day as me (we think from the same person/place) and had over a week of feeling awful. She was a similar age but without being rude, overweight which apparently makes a big difference. 

Thrugelmir

onashoestring said:

MiserlyMartin said:

Covid 19 is now just a cold, and the pandemic is virtually over as we all get herd immunity to this cold. Restrictions and even testing are all ramping down. It's now time to return to normal and live with it - not lockdown and restrict peoples movement every 5 minutes. That makes vaccinations (which only last 6 months before the immunity wanes anyway) irrelevant to this discussion.

Not according to Heathrow’s boss - https://www.bbc.com/news/business-59950633

Profit before people's health. Do Heathrow's owners care, one doubts it. The CEO will do as instructed irrespective of personal opinion. 

ripplyuk

That ‘mild cold’ is hospitalising an awful lot of kids 

jimi_man

ripplyuk said:

That ‘mild cold’ is hospitalising an awful lot of kids 

As always the devil is in the detail. How many of those have been hospitalised because of Covid or hospitalised for something else and have tested positive for Covid but aren't ill with it? Also how many have picked it up whilst in hospital? With under 12's not being routinely vaccinated they are going to pick it up quicker than if you have been vaccinated.

Thrugelmir

jimi_man said:

ripplyuk said:

That ‘mild cold’ is hospitalising an awful lot of kids 

As always the devil is in the detail. How many of those have been hospitalised because of Covid or hospitalised for something else and have tested positive for Covid but aren't ill with it? Also how many have picked it up whilst in hospital? With under 12's not being routinely vaccinated they are going to pick it up quicker than if you have been vaccinated.

Perhaps we should return to the days of Witch Doctors and not bother with the NHS at all. 

y3sitsm3

Thrugelmir said:

jimi_man said:

ripplyuk said:

That ‘mild cold’ is hospitalising an awful lot of kids 

As always the devil is in the detail. How many of those have been hospitalised because of Covid or hospitalised for something else and have tested positive for Covid but aren't ill with it? Also how many have picked it up whilst in hospital? With under 12's not being routinely vaccinated they are going to pick it up quicker than if you have been vaccinated.

Perhaps we should return to the days of Witch Doctors and not bother with the NHS at all. 

Don't be silly.

They're right though.  It was estimated that 4 odd million people had it in the first week of the year, which is a lot of people.  With this week, and all the weeks preceding it a hell of a lot of people will have had it, and some of those will have been hospitalised for any reason other than COVID.

When they go to hospital they get tested and added to the stats regardless of the admission reason.  And if they tested positive at any point in the preceding 28 days, onto the stats they go too.

We're starting to see similar effects in the death figures, which will presumably be equally misinterpreted by the media as a last gasp before they have to throw the towel in and go back to telling us we'll all be destitute and/or dead because of Brexit.

jimi_man

Thrugelmir said:

jimi_man said:

ripplyuk said:

That ‘mild cold’ is hospitalising an awful lot of kids 

As always the devil is in the detail. How many of those have been hospitalised because of Covid or hospitalised for something else and have tested positive for Covid but aren't ill with it? Also how many have picked it up whilst in hospital? With under 12's not being routinely vaccinated they are going to pick it up quicker than if you have been vaccinated.

Perhaps we should return to the days of Witch Doctors and not bother with the NHS at all. 

I have absolutely no idea what you mean by that? Personally I'd rather stay with the NHS but if you're one for witch doctors then that's your right to believe in that.

It seems that a lot of people at the moment - far more than previously - are going into hospital with something else but are testing positive for Covid when they get there or after they've been there - picking it up in hospital. That obviously affects the figures.

Omicron stats are huge, but look beyond them - BBC News

That article was over a week ago and some more encouraging news since then is that the the latest suggestions are that the peak has been reached and hospitalisations are slowing down and also that NHS staff absences due to Covid are also reducing. So, fingers crossed and hopefully the travel industry will pick up. 

lisyloo

There are several reasons why the international travel won’t pick up immediately (and I’m talking years not months)

1. Most countries are behind us timewise wrt omicron
2. There is a likelihood of other variants. If they are milder then great, but there is no guarantee if that’s.
3. some people e.g. the more elderly, may never travel again. Maureen lipman did a witty piece on how tortuous it was for her in her 70s
4. some people have made other significant plans - like spending a 5 figure sum on a caravan or a 6 figure sum on a 2nd property. Some of them will like to stick with it.
5. Hundred of countries don’t have the vaccinations we have. Some have very vaccine hesitant populations, Some will have difficult financing or building the nightingale infrastructure. Think of places like Indonesia, the Philippines with 2000 islands. The latter has been closed to tourism since March 2020.
6. Some governments are not libertarian. We in the west might think they are wrong, but this there are clearly different views. We’ve all seen millions of people being locked down in China for a few cases. We can’t expect the rest of the world to do what the uk does.

I do hope this becomes more like flu and we can return to normal but my feeling is that we can we are years away not months. I think you’ll find that’s a consensus view in the travel industry.