Pay and Display Overstay £100

Redx

CastorTroy said:

Difficult to say I guess. I would say unlikely. Depends if they try and pass on to debt collector and drive up the bill before going to court. 

As far as I see it I can either: 

1) Appeal direct via their site. Argue mitigating circumstances and hope they cancel the charge. 

2) Same as above but request that if they don't cancel the charge that I'd like to proceed directly to court and argue mitigating circumstances in front of a judge. Best case they chose not to go to court or the judge sides with me and charge cancelled, worst case judge feels there is no evidence to support mitigating circumstances (I can't call a toddler as a witness) and instructs me to pay the £100 + court costs of £300+.

1) do so anyway , even though they will reject it , looks better in court ( mention that on your return you offered to pay for another ticket and the parking company employee rejected it )

2) a typical loss in court is £200 or less , the £100 PCN plus court and legal fees

Yes they will likely employ a debt collector who will add on a notional fee , one that cannot be enforced and probably thrown out in court , putting it back to £100. The claimant will likely employ a dodgy legal like gladrags to issue the court claim proceedings and act as an intermediary

D_P_Dance

Court fees etc are very unlikely to rxceed £100.  Costa in small claims court are severely capped.

Coupon-mad

Court costs are up to £85, not £300+.

Have you exhausted the landowner complaint?  They'll listen to mitigation and won't want to alienate the public.

CastorTroy

I think in this case the landowner is the one issuing the PCN as they have a PO box for the same address. 

If I request they proceed directly to court, can they still opt to employ a debt collector instead to try and drive up the costs ?

Trainerman

CastorTroy said:

I think in this case the landowner is the one issuing the PCN as they have a PO box for the same address. 

If I request they proceed directly to court, can they still opt to employ a debt collector instead to try and drive up the costs ?

Even if they do, just fight it in Court in the recommended way 

Coupon-mad

If i request they proceed directly to court, can they still opt to employ a debt collector instead to try and drive up the costs ?

They can't - but they will, because that's what the more thuggish rogue parking firms do.

Read my post about the PAP and how it must not be used to 'run up costs' and how the Select Committee has asked the Government to look at proportionality re the supposed 'costs'.

CastorTroy

@Coupon-mad Re-reading your sticky posts I seems by submitting an mitigating circumstances defence (delayed due to injured child) at the first appeal stage (direct to issuer) that I would effectively be admission of being driver which you state is 'shooting yourself in the foot.'

I'm a little confused over if the templated notice to keeper applies in my situation (I've not yet admitted to being the driver). 

If I submit an 'honest' appeal and explain how I offered to purchase another  ticket etc then I'm admitting I was the driver ultimately I have no actual evidence to support it in court. I could request their CCTV via SAR but even that would only confirm I returned to the vehicle and spoke to the attendant, no evidence of the conversation etc.    

Which approach is better at first appeal stage, does the template for appeal as registered keeper rather than driver apply in this scenario ?

Redx

You won't be able to obtain CCTV footage ( imho )

Plus it won't assist your defence either

You should read what Bargepole said a few months ago about the driver versus keeper arguments , and which is better for honesty or honesty in a court claim

A keeper based template format relies on POFA and no keeper liability

The above does not assist a keeper who was also the driver

A driver based appeal or defence is from a First person Witness who was there at the time , as could a statement by the employee of the parking company ( or parking company owner if it was him )

Sometimes an honest Witness defendant stance is better in court than hiding behind POFA , especially if asked the following in court

Castor Troy , were you the driver on the day ? Yes or no ?

What would your honest answer be ?

The mitigating circumstances don't stop the fact that no extra ticket was purchased , regardless of what the employee said , nor did you subsequently offer to pay the extra charges within say 24 or 48 hours , or even a week later ! My point being that had you done any of those actions it would assist your mitigating circumstances arguments

The parking company won't cancel on the first appeal ( plan B )

The IAS ADR won't cancel on the second appeal ( plan C )

Plan A may work , if you complain to the landowner

Plan D is court , hence my comments based on comments by Bargepole

CastorTroy

@Coupon-mad So it sounds like in this case paying the 'discounted' £60 is likely to be the least expensive route to take. 

My honest appeal will fail at each stage. The issuer will in all liklyhood pass to TRACE for debt recovery. They will bump up the costs until court in which these may well be thrown out but best case : 

TRACE cancel the court appearance at the last minute 

or 

Judge having a good day and sides with my defence with no supporting evidence. 

worst case: 

Judge feels no evidence to support defence and sides with PCN. £100 or £60 fine + court costs. 

Your plan D, court sounds like there is a fairly low chance on success without witness / statements etc. Attendant may well be the owner is in either case is unlikely to support my defence.

Redx

A typical loss in court is about £200 or less , £100 PCN plus £100 in court costs and legal fees , possibly £175 at the lowest estimate