Vauxhall Street Plymouth, Car Park

Vlad_The_Inhaler

Firstly thank you to all who provide their time to assist those who have had the misfortune to receive a PCN.

We will endeavour to be brief and to point.

Received a NTK dated 21st October 2021 from Premier Parking Solutions (PPS) based in Newton Abbot, Devon. This consisted of ANPR images of the of the vehicle entering and leaving the car park at Vauxhall Street, Plymouth, this tallies with the receipt we have in our possession which was paid less than 2 minutes after arrival, until departure 23 minutes before the paid time expired. Payment was made for 2 hours, only parked for approximately 1 hour, 38 minutes.

Reason For issue: No trace of Payment

Received a letter from BW Legal dated 25th November 2021 asking for a sum of £160, demanding payment in full by the 09 January 2022.

Fully understand that it could have been sorted easily, however the post and our whereabouts during these bizarre times, were not in the same place, hence the delay.

PPS website no longer recognises the PCN number.

Having spent considerable time going through the many cases on here, unfortunately we have not found a similar case. Any guidance on what to do and who to deal with this matter would be gratefully received.

Yours sincerely.

Vlad_The_Inhaler

Le_Kirk

Was it a PDT where you were required to input your VRM?  If so, does the ticket in your possession have your VRM printed in it?

Vlad_The_Inhaler

Le_Kirk said:

Was it a PDT where you were required to input your VRM?  If so, does the ticket in your possession have your VRM printed in it?

Thank you for your prompt reply Le_Kirk.

Not entirely sure what "PDT" means, we are new to this and it isn't in the Newbies list of acronyms.Taking a stab it means something to do with the thing that takes the cash, we are not local to this car park (we live a good 2 to 3 hour drive from Plymouth) and have not used it before so no recollection of what is required. If a registration serial was required it would have been inputted. The receipt in our possession does not have a VRM upon it, there is however after the amount paid two letters in Block Capitals...no idea if this is relevant.

Again thank you for responding.

Yours.

Vlad_The_Inhaler

Le_Kirk

Vlad_The_Inhaler said:

Le_Kirk said:

Was it a PDT where you were required to input your VRM?  If so, does the ticket in your possession have your VRM printed in it?

Thank you for your prompt reply Le_Kirk.

Not entirely sure what "PDT" means, we are new to this and it isn't in the Newbies list of acronyms. Taking a stab it means something to do with the thing that takes the cash, we are not local to this car park (we live a good 2 to 3 hour drive from Plymouth) and have not used it before so no recollection of what is required. If a registration serial was required it would have been inputted. The receipt in our possession does not have a VRM upon it, there is however after the amount paid two letters in Block Capitals...no idea if this is relevant.

PDT = Pay and Display Terminal  (Auntie Google has all sorts of acronyms if they cannot be found in the NEWBIE sticky).  We have come across those PDTs that fail to print the full VRM even if it was input by the motorist.  Looks like you received a letter before claim, as they gave you more than 30 days to respond.  Look out for a court claim pack (N1) from Northampton CCBC.  If your address is not the same as on your V5C, you need to sort this with DVLA and also make sure that the parking company knows your correct address for service by sending a Data Rectification Notice to the DPO of the PPC - all that is definitely in the NEWBIE.  What you don't want is a claim form to go to the wrong address as you will receive a judgment in default.
If it comes to a court claim and you have to submit a defence, your defence would include failure of the parking company's equipment - not your fault.

Vlad_The_Inhaler

Le_Kirk said:

Vlad_The_Inhaler said:

Le_Kirk said:

Was it a PDT where you were required to input your VRM?  If so, does the ticket in your possession have your VRM printed in it?

Thank you for your prompt reply Le_Kirk.

Not entirely sure what "PDT" means, we are new to this and it isn't in the Newbies list of acronyms. Taking a stab it means something to do with the thing that takes the cash, we are not local to this car park (we live a good 2 to 3 hour drive from Plymouth) and have not used it before so no recollection of what is required. If a registration serial was required it would have been inputted. The receipt in our possession does not have a VRM upon it, there is however after the amount paid two letters in Block Capitals...no idea if this is relevant.

PDT = Pay and Display Terminal  (Auntie Google has all sorts of acronyms if they cannot be found in the NEWBIE sticky).  We have come across those PDTs that fail to print the full VRM even if it was input by the motorist.  Looks like you received a letter before claim, as they gave you more than 30 days to respond.  Look out for a court claim pack (N1) from Northampton CCBC.  If your address is not the same as on your V5C, you need to sort this with DVLA and also make sure that the parking company knows your correct address for service by sending a Data Rectification Notice to the DPO of the PPC - all that is definitely in the NEWBIE.  What you don't want is a claim form to go to the wrong address as you will receive a judgment in default.
If it comes to a court claim and you have to submit a defence, your defence would include failure of the parking company's equipment - not your fault.

Again thank you for your prompt reply Le_Kirk.

Indeed Auntie Google can be of great assistance at times, however "Pacific Daylight Time" threw me a bit, your clarification is much appreciated. Regards the RK address, it is fine.

From my understanding of your reply, we are now having to wait for them to make the next move? Is there nothing that can be done to bring this to a halt now?

Yours.

Vlad_The_Inhaler

D_P_Dance

Received a letter from BW Legal ... asking for a sum of £160, 

They have added what appears to be an extra unlawful amount for debt collection.

This amounts to double recovery and Judges all over the country are dismissing these spurious additions. Indeed some judges have dismissed entire claims because of this. Read this and complain to Trading Standards and your MP,

Excel v Wilkinson

At the Bradford County Court, District Judge Claire Jackson (now HHJ Jackson, a Specialist Civil Circuit Judge) decided to hear a 'test case' a few months ago, where £60 had been added to a parking charge despite Judges up and down the country repeatedly disallowing that sum and warning parking firms not to waste court time with such spurious claims.   That case was Excel v Wilkinson: G4QZ465V, heard in July 2020 and leave to appeal was refused and that route was not pursued.  The Judge concluded that such claims are proceedings with 'an improper collateral purpose'.   This Judge - and others who have since copied her words and struck dozens of cases out in late 2020 and into 2021 - went into significant detail and concluded that parking operators (such as this Claimant) are seeking to circumvent CPR 27.14 as well as breaching the Consumer Rights Act 2015.   DJ Hickinbottom has recently struck more cases out in that court area, stating: ''I find that striking out this claim is the only appropriate manner in which the disapproval of the court can be shown''.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/16qovzulab1szem/G4QZ465V%20Excel%20v%20Wilkinson.pdf?dl=0

However, VCS appealed this so it may not apply in all cases, read this

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ntksx9g7177ahyg/VCS v Percy v1 Amendments (2).pdf?dl=0Also read this

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6279348/witness-statements-2-transcripts-re-parking-firms-false-costs-recorder-cohen-qc-judgment-2021/p1

Also consider complaining to The SRA about the solicitor, if one is involved They are fully aware of the unlawful nature of most of thse additions yet persist in adding them..

https://www.sra.org.uk/consumers/problems/

Coupon-mad

What two letters in block capitals?

PP?

QQ?

Read this and use it (the court transcript, not the Blog!) plus a photo of your ticket to robustly respond to BW Legal to point out this is a known flaw (error code) displayed by old Metric machines and similar pay and display systems that cause this error.  This has previously been tested in court and is not the fault of the driver:

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2016/10/peel-centre-machine-failure-transcript.html?m=1

No phone calls and no panicking.  You'll win this.

The person being written to (the registered keeper) must respond and will be the Defendant in court (unless they transfer liability now by giving the name and postal address of the driver, if not them. - but the keeper doesn't have to name the driver if they are happy to defend this as keeper).

Vlad_The_Inhaler

Coupon-mad said:

What two letters in block capitals?

PP?

QQ?

Read this and use it (the court transcript, obviously, not the Blog!) plus a photo of your ticket to robustly respond to BW Legal to point out this is a known flaw (error code) displayed by old Metric machines and similar pay and display systems that cause this error.  This has previously been tested in court and is not the fault of the driver:

No phone calls and no panicking.  You'll win this.

The person being written to (the registered keeper) must respond and will be the Defendant in court (unless they transfer liability now by giving the name and postal address of the driver, if not them. - but the keeper doesn't have to name the driver if they are happy to defend this as keeper).

Thank you for your reply Coupon_mad

The block capitals are RR, they are on the same line and read from left to right (Items in Bold are what is printed on the receipt):

Time of payment 1600     Amount Paid 2.40  then RR

After the VAT number there is a 6 digit code, printed by dot matrix printer, which appears to be perhaps the transaction code.

Thank you for the link and the encouragement, it creates a warm fuzzy feeling that there is perhaps justice at the end of this tale.

So I now await BW Legal to start court proceedings?

Yours grateful for all the information.

Vlad_The_Inhaler

(Note:Had to delete the link due to being too new to the forum to have this right)

Coupon-mad

That's a definite error code of Metric Pay and display machines.  We've also seen PP before, I think it was in a case @bargepole may remember.

paulstevens64

Vlad_The_Inhaler said:

Coupon-mad said:

What two letters in block capitals?

PP?

QQ?

Read this and use it (the court transcript, obviously, not the Blog!) plus a photo of your ticket to robustly respond to BW Legal to point out this is a known flaw (error code) displayed by old Metric machines and similar pay and display systems that cause this error.  This has previously been tested in court and is not the fault of the driver:

No phone calls and no panicking.  You'll win this.

The person being written to (the registered keeper) must respond and will be the Defendant in court (unless they transfer liability now by giving the name and postal address of the driver, if not them. - but the keeper doesn't have to name the driver if they are happy to defend this as keeper).

Thank you for your reply Coupon_mad

The block capitals are RR, they are on the same line and read from left to right (Items in Bold are what is printed on the receipt):

Time of payment 1600     Amount Paid 2.40  then RR

After the VAT number there is a 6 digit code, printed by dot matrix printer, which appears to be perhaps the transaction code.

Thank you for the link and the encouragement, it creates a warm fuzzy feeling that there is perhaps justice at the end of this tale.

So I now await BW Legal to start court proceedings?

Yours grateful for all the information.

Vlad_The_Inhaler

(Note:Had to delete the link due to being too new to the forum to have this right)

Hi Vlad,

I think that Coupon Mad is saying you should write back to BW Legal now, and state your case re the "fault code" printed on  the ticket (instead of the VRN that you entered), and use info from the link provided to evidence that this is a known and common fault. Tell BW Legal to cease action and to inform their client that they must cancel the ticket.

Vlad_The_Inhaler

Thank you to all of you who have contributed to this thread, I am about to send the letter to BW Legal. Would it be prudent to post what I am about to send on this forum (minus any identifiable personal details) to ensure that all is covered?

I am hoping it will be yes, as this legal business seems and utter minefield when it comes to dotting the I's and T's.

Yours,

Vlad_The_Inhaler