Brother in law wants to move in

13

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  • pickledonionspaceraider
    pickledonionspaceraider Posts: 2,698 Forumite
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    newbie26 said:

    I think we will set him timelines for getting diagnosed,.....................


    See how much prejudice and stigma is still related to mental health issues which is clearly rife on this board - and as a person with a mental health issue, you find this is just as much of an obstacle in real life.  People treat you differently, people pre-judge you

    such as comments on here -   'I bet he isnt even diagnosed'  This comment stands out to me that the writer needs some education on the current mental health system before offering advice.  I wont discuss my health history on here however,   I feel people dont have the  understanding of the system BEFORE covid, and it is even harder to reach out for mental health help now.  Trust me when I tell you it is a nightmare trying to get diagnosed.  I am not saying this to be argumentative to anyone or the person who typed this comment, I am merely providing facts that may help people to understand how hard it is.  We do not know that BIL may have reached out for help repeatedly.  You end up getting passed from one service to the next whilst feeling suicidal, and then you don't know where to turn and this is when you might already feel broken inside and exhausted with no energy to reach out repeatedly - honestly i could tell you stories that you would not believe and I did just type out a long paragraph but deleted it as i don't want it out there 

    OP - You yourself with the above comment  'I will give him a deadline to get diagnosed' - This is uncool to demand a  timeline for someone to deal with their personal mental health issue?  Either if he was living under your roof, this is wrong on every level and morally reprehensible  to try to exert that type of control over another adult. No no no - I would have rather lived on the streets than this

    What you are offering him basically is to pay full rent to live with people who act like his parents, just woah back a bit 

    BIL is showing classic symptoms of a mental health disorder of some kind, so turn your back on him if you feel able, but know that you are likely going to drive a wedge between you and your wife.

    Are you sure you are ready to start a family?  Family don't turn their back on someone who needs help - they reach out? What if your kid has mental health issues as a teenager, what you plan to do then?  Become the type of person that your kid will look up to and admire the good in.

    From post one, most time OP mentions BIL is in a negative way - even about things that do not affect the OP, clearly OP does not like the BIL lifestyle choices

    So I do agree that BIL does need to stand on his own two feet - I mean by this that he needs to learn to cope by himself entirely - and soon - as there does become a point where its easy to enable someone to keep leaning on you and you do not want this as its unhealthy

     so my idea would be support him in doing this (becoming more able to deal with his issues himself) - tell him he can live with you for three months.  Yes i would charge him some  rent but depending on the income he had - so initially if he has no income, he cant pay rent, but as soon as he gets a job, get him to cover some costs, his food mainly. 

    The reason i would not ever charge him full rent is this - I would tell him that he has 3 months, three months to sort something else out in terms of accommodation - and i would stick to this and help him apartment search. Sign him up to housing associations etc to help him. 

    If he signs up to local councils and registers as homeless ie no fixed abode and sofa surfing at your home etc he can get prioritised.  That may help him get cheaper accommodation quicker. I would not charge him full rent as I lay down the expectation that if he not saving for another place - then the deadline will still come around and he will be leaving on that day

    I would advise him where t he nearest GP surgery is but not demand he deals with his mental health as people will only do this when they are ready




    With love, POSR <3
  • Brie
    Brie Posts: 9,915 Forumite
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    pickledonionspaceraider
    I get this.  It's easy to dismiss MH issues because so many of us, thankfully, don't really suffer from them.  I do know that it's very easy for people to say "oh pull yourself together" or "just go out for a walk, that's going help you straighten yourself out!"

    But dealing with those that profess to have these or actually do have them is really draining.  And if the OP & his wife are having to support (in any fashion) BiL then this could be detrimental to them personally and to their relationship.  Sometimes it's a case of having to look after oneself.  

    Hopefully they can find a middle way of providing some support and enable BiL to get himself back into a semblance of what most of us would consider a normal life and way of living.
    "Never retract, never explain, never apologise; get things done and let them howl.”
  • Voyager2002
    Voyager2002 Posts: 15,277 Forumite
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    I am tempted to say that BIL should sell the film rights to his life story and use them to support the extended family in luxury!

    Anyway, an obvious comment is that if he is working in London and spending his earnings on hotels and transport, he will have precious little left to save! And if he again finds that he cannot bear the 4am starts combined with the long journey to and from work, then bang go all his plans. So it really makes sense for him to find a room in a house-share or similar that is reasonably close to his work, a point that you or his sister could well make clear to him. (His mother could also be helpful in spelling this out to him once she grasps the costs involved.)

    And well done to the OP for seeing the good points about BIL and being remarkably tolerant and supportive. I do agree that there has to be a limit to this, and BIL is very close to any reasonable limit. Not really about money, since even if he were paying a realistic amount for your hospitality life would still feel strained with him living there in what you say is a small house.
  • pickledonionspaceraider
    pickledonionspaceraider Posts: 2,698 Forumite
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    edited 18 December 2021 at 5:18PM
    newbie26 said:
    @pickledonionspaceraider

    When I say get diagnosed, I just meant make an appointment, make the first step etc. He has not reached out before, he very recently told us he felt depressed in Aus and had one therapy session and that's the total effort his put into getting help, 4ish years to do something rather then bring it up now. 

    OK so you actually said 'diagnosed'  (so I took that to mean what you typed) - However - even with a diagnosis, things may not change whatsoever. All it means is a label
    Maybe he is not confiding everything in you.  It can be a very lonely journey.  This BIL needs to be taught some coping mechanisms (not your job) but hopefully he can get guidance on this from the local mental health teams

    I've described BIL's back story as best I could in order for readers to make there own judgement, apologies if it seemed negative? Would it have been better to sugar coat it?

    Erm fair do's and I did make a judgement - based on personal experiences.  I felt the story was more emotional from your point of view rather than facts in many ways.  I do get that it would be a massive pain having someone else in your personal space at home - I really do.

    I'm not sure why I should be responsible for subsidizing him now, when does the cycle end?

    This is not what I said  at all.. if you read the part where i talked about when things get so far it becomes enabling, - did you read that?  The thing is, you can only help someone so much, before you are enabling them and going round in circles - its a tricky situation for sure 

    Not entirely sure where you get were acting like his parents?

    Making demands that he lives by your rules including on his healthcare, yes it would be IMO - that is how it came across - more so the demands on his healthcare as you were putting a time frame on him getting a diagnosis, which as above i see you meant something else 

     If he doesn't like paying the rent and apparently being treated like a child he could always go elsewhere, he has free will and his own choice, no one forced him to stay here or even come back to the UK. If anything why can't we act like parents, it seems to be the position we've been put in.

    Does he say he doesn't like paying rent?  In this instance he is likely to end up homeless - he might get some luck from Shelter


    And yep I think at the end of the day it does boil down to lifestyle choices that I don't agree with. Whilst living with us paying a minimal amount of rent he built up money enough money to put a deposit on a house (in the south east), instead of using it sensibly its gone on a holiday and his missed his sisters wedding, the same thing happened when he lived in Aus (had money, blew it on travelling), and arguably before he travelled to Aus too but im not going to find out his old finiances to the Nth degree.

    Fair do's, we don't have to agree with lifestyle choices - and it is very hard to explain but mental health is so hugely tied in with behaviours that this is likely to be a massive factor if not the cause. I realise these can come across as excuses but they arent. People will think this is an excuse but its really not.  It is up to him to learn a way to stabilize though  I would post more info on my own experiences here but to be honest, most people aren't entirely understanding.
    you mention that your BIL never pays for takeaways etc, i wonder if it doesnt occur to him to do so? I think you should approach him about this in a matey way, esp now we know he has money 

    He's still got a decent chunk of money saved, so far he hasn't offered to pay any rent, food, takeaways, petrol etc. He is a young single male adult, with money saved, the council would never help him and we would never kick him out onto the streets penniless anyway.

    I don't remember reading that he has SAVINGS before - did you type this before?  
      This makes it a different ball game then IMO, and i would be helping him look for a flat.  

    Currently he can stay one month completely free (over the expensive Xmas period), 2 months after with reduced rent (but will also include all expenses/bills/food etc), and then he has the offer to move into one of our close friends homes for whatever rent they decide or go and find somewhere himself. Pretty sure this is the right approach, if anything a bit soft.

    Yeah its more than fair - now knowing the info about him having savings - this paragraph you seem far more understanding.  Now with the above info of him having savings. 

    If he were my child I think id foot the responsibility and make him come home to me rather then put that pressure on my daughter to look after him, especially as she'd already taken him in for a year and had just got married. I wouldnt expect other family members to look after them, and if I did i'd make damm sure they were ok with it and make sure to help them out if they needed anything.

    It is really hard to say but maybe he cannot be 'made' to go home to parents, maybe he just refuses and feels happier with you guys.  

    We're all around 30, Covid hasn't exactly been kind on us too. Our wedding was ruined and we lost money, three holidays have been cancelled, my wife has been unable to see her family for two years, my work become very stressful as I didnt know if id still have a job and lastly a couple of my close friends developed mental health issues which I have been trying to help them with.

    It hasn't been kind to anyone - some far worse, some less so

    I don't think it's selfish to want to have our own space and to start a family, time is precious and I'd like to not feel bad about putting my wife and myself first.

    You do indeed need to put yourselves first. 
    In the situation where the BIL has these savings etc, then you shouldn't be having to help him really at all in all honesty there is nothing to stop him going to rent a place fairly quickly.

    It is all very strange.  Now we know he has money etc, I wonder if he doesnt want to live alone, prefers to be with you guys etc.  I think like i have said before you can only help someone so much 

    I think you are doing the right thing, but id defo tell him that this is the last time,


    Hi there, my responses are in italics above

    With love, POSR <3
  • pickledonionspaceraider
    pickledonionspaceraider Posts: 2,698 Forumite
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    Savvy_Sue said:
    pickledonionspaceraider said:

    If he signs up to local councils and registers as homeless ie no fixed abode and sofa surfing at your home etc he can get prioritised.  That may help him get cheaper accommodation quicker. 
    Oh if only that were true. The response from our local council would be that he is a young single man, not vulnerable (regardless of his mental health, you'd be surprised what a state you can be in without being deemed 'vulnerable' in the eyes of the local authority) and since he has next to no chance of ever being offered accommodation, he should look for private rented accommodation. 

    Plus, as long as he is sofa surfing, he is not homeless. The OP would have to give him a letter evicting him. And he would then be told to return once he's actually been turfed out, because until then there is nothing the local authority can do. And even then they will have no duty to house him because of the above. Especially if they do not accept that he has any 'local connection' to the area - having a sister there may well not be enough. 

    It sounds as if the OP has a plan, and it sounds like a reasonable plan, which doesn't seem to involve relying on being offered council accommodation, which is just as well. 

    Perhaps worth pointing out that in some areas you can find good hostels which will take longer-than-a-few-days bookings. It's how one of my sons started off when he first moved to London. 
    @savvy_sue
    @Savvy_Sue
    Wow that is very different approach to my council - if you are sofa surfing you are classed as homeless ie NFA, and as a single man would most likely be offered in the first instance, a homeless shelter or hostel as a short term solution. 

    Yep sounds like OP has come up with a suitable solution for all, for the BIL and for his own sanity
    With love, POSR <3
  • pickledonionspaceraider
    pickledonionspaceraider Posts: 2,698 Forumite
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    elsien said:
    .………

    I don't think it's selfish to want to have our own space and to start a family, time is precious and I'd like to not feel bad about putting my wife and myself first.



    It absolutely is not selfish to want that. First rule of supporting someone with mental health issues is to look after yourself. 

    And mental health or not, it’s not ok for him to expect you to subsidise his next jolly abroad.
    You’re right, he’s not going to be any sort of priority with the council or housing associations so he needs to focus on a plan that gets his own roof over his head. His other plans can follow on from that.  

    He certainly wouldnt get priority with savings if over 16k I think it is here.  I dont remember reading earlier on in the thread about the savings aspect 
    With love, POSR <3
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