Brother in law wants to move in

pickledonionspaceraider

Pollycat said:

It's not a case of prejudice and stigma and pre-judging people with mental health issues.
It's not even definite that the OP's BIL does actually have mental health issues.
Just because he says he's depressed doesn't mean that he actually is depressed.

I think you have been unnecessarily hard on the OP.
BIL has shown himself to be selfish during his last stay and it seems he intends to do the same this time - if he can get his own way.
There is nothing 'morally reprehensible' about what the OP has said or done.

The following is not aimed at OP - or that situation, but picking up on Pollcats points - which I feel are important to read and may give someone pause for thought


 Are you being ironic here? @Pollycat @Pollycat

Part of the stigma of having a Mental Health (MH) issue, is that because it is an invisible illness - people can assume, exactly like you are right here,  -  that a person is lying.  You have just denied showing stigma, whilst showing stigma.  I am certain you are better person than this - kind and compassionate. 

If I said I had any other illness but you couldn't see it, would you assume that it would mean that I have not actually been diagnosed with it?  No, of course not.  

This adds to the judgement and stigma  - as it is actually gaslighting a person with mental health issues, having the constant insinuation of people not believing you - to tell or insinuate an ill person is not actually unwell.  This actually can make a person feel worse. Alone, afraid, self-loathing,  paranoid and isolated, amongst many other things

People with MH issues can go through life losing friends due to this very thing.  It is heart-breaking.  Other people can seem  only become temporary fixture, until they find out about the illness, then they fade into the background again

Not as a deliberate act, but other peoples reactions to mental health illnesses can actually make them worse (in my experience) and I can honestly say I have had people doubt me - assume they can somehow see inside my head, check my dopamine levels, read my thoughts etc.  

The only way a person with a mental health issue can prove to someone else how bad they are feeling  - is something concrete, so people have something firm to believe - such as injuring themselves ...and this does not end well for them - and by then everyone is stood around shaking their heads saying more should be done tut tut. 

I do hope that if you have contact with any people with MH issues you show a more understanding approach 

Mental health is killing people in absolute droves.  The amount of people this year alone that have chosen to end their lives by their own hands, is surely proof enough that this needs to be taken very seriously. 

There is little to be gained by faking your entire persona for 100% of your life so you can 'fake' depression.  I feel desperately sad that anyone would even think that, if I am honest.  I wish I could help you understand.

I only talk from personal experience and and I know other people will have different outlooks, of course, we are but only human.

Savvy_Sue

pickledonionspaceraider said:

Savvy_Sue said:

pickledonionspaceraider said:

If he signs up to local councils and registers as homeless ie no fixed abode and sofa surfing at your home etc he can get prioritised.  That may help him get cheaper accommodation quicker. 

Oh if only that were true. The response from our local council would be that he is a young single man, not vulnerable (regardless of his mental health, you'd be surprised what a state you can be in without being deemed 'vulnerable' in the eyes of the local authority) and since he has next to no chance of ever being offered accommodation, he should look for private rented accommodation. 

Plus, as long as he is sofa surfing, he is not homeless. The OP would have to give him a letter evicting him. And he would then be told to return once he's actually been turfed out, because until then there is nothing the local authority can do. And even then they will have no duty to house him because of the above. Especially if they do not accept that he has any 'local connection' to the area - having a sister there may well not be enough. 

It sounds as if the OP has a plan, and it sounds like a reasonable plan, which doesn't seem to involve relying on being offered council accommodation, which is just as well. 

Perhaps worth pointing out that in some areas you can find good hostels which will take longer-than-a-few-days bookings. It's how one of my sons started off when he first moved to London. 

@savvy_sue
@Savvy_Sue
Wow that is very different approach to my council - if you are sofa surfing you are classed as homeless ie NFA, and as a single man would most likely be offered in the first instance, a homeless shelter or hostel as a short term solution. 

Yep sounds like OP has come up with a suitable solution for all, for the BIL and for his own sanity

Here, we used to have night shelters where those who might normally be offered access to a homeless shelter or a hostel could be accommodated overnight while they waited for a possible space in a homeless shelter or hostel to become available. By that I mean halls where mattresses / folding beds were pulled out at night, with a chair at the side of each one, in a communal space. It wasn't always possible even to offer breakfast in the morning, as the halls had to be returned to empty spaces for their daytime use. 

I am not sure what has happened since: obviously these shelters had to close during Covid, and the 'Everyone In' scheme gave them hotel rooms for a period. That was a good thing as it enabled agencies to engage with those who might otherwise have been sleeping rough, and try to address whatever problems had led to the person becoming homeless. 

But however high someone's priority, in this area there are nowhere near enough 1 bed flats for all the single people who want one, and nowhere near enough family homes for all those with children who are insecurely housed. Single people who are not vulnerable will be advised to seek private rented accommodation, which may well mean sharing, and families will probably end up in hostels and B&Bs while they hope to be offered something more suitable. 

Pollycat

pickledonionspaceraider said:

Pollycat said:

It's not a case of prejudice and stigma and pre-judging people with mental health issues.
It's not even definite that the OP's BIL does actually have mental health issues.
Just because he says he's depressed doesn't mean that he actually is depressed.

I think you have been unnecessarily hard on the OP.
BIL has shown himself to be selfish during his last stay and it seems he intends to do the same this time - if he can get his own way.
There is nothing 'morally reprehensible' about what the OP has said or done.

The following is not aimed at OP - or that situation, but picking up on Pollcats points - which I feel are important to read and may give someone pause for thought


 Are you being ironic here? @Pollycat @Pollycat

Part of the stigma of having a Mental Health (MH) issue, is that because it is an invisible illness - people can assume, exactly like you are right here,  -  that a person is lying.  You have just denied showing stigma, whilst showing stigma.  I am certain you are better person than this - kind and compassionate. 

If I said I had any other illness but you couldn't see it, would you assume that it would mean that I have not actually been diagnosed with it?  No, of course not.  

This adds to the judgement and stigma  - as it is actually gaslighting a person with mental health issues, having the constant insinuation of people not believing you - to tell or insinuate an ill person is not actually unwell.  This actually can make a person feel worse. Alone, afraid, self-loathing,  paranoid and isolated, amongst many other things

People with MH issues can go through life losing friends due to this very thing.  It is heart-breaking.  Other people can seem  only become temporary fixture, until they find out about the illness, then they fade into the background again

Not as a deliberate act, but other peoples reactions to mental health illnesses can actually make them worse (in my experience) and I can honestly say I have had people doubt me - assume they can somehow see inside my head, check my dopamine levels, read my thoughts etc.  

The only way a person with a mental health issue can prove to someone else how bad they are feeling  - is something concrete, so people have something firm to believe - such as injuring themselves ...and this does not end well for them - and by then everyone is stood around shaking their heads saying more should be done tut tut. 

I do hope that if you have contact with any people with MH issues you show a more understanding approach 

Mental health is killing people in absolute droves.  The amount of people this year alone that have chosen to end their lives by their own hands, is surely proof enough that this needs to be taken very seriously. 

There is little to be gained by faking your entire persona for 100% of your life so you can 'fake' depression.  I feel desperately sad that anyone would even think that, if I am honest.  I wish I could help you understand.

I only talk from personal experience and and I know other people will have different outlooks, of course, we are but only human.

No. I'm not being ironic.

I'll say it again:
just because someone says they are depressed doesn't mean they are.

You are talking generally about mental illness.
You don't know the BIL and neither do I.
The fact is - the OP's BIL has not been diagnosed with depression.
So please don't accuse me of gaslighting or of anything else.

You do not know me.
You do not know my history or my family's history.
Please don't display passive aggression towards me by commenting on what type of person you think I am or hoping that if I have contact with any people with MH issues I show a more understanding approach.
I do not need you to 'help me understand' mental illness.

I have not said anyone is 'faking' depression.

I have commented on this thread solely about what the OP has said about his BIL.
You have taken it off-topic to soap-box about depression generally and in an attempt to criticise me.

pickledonionspaceraider

Pollycat said:

pickledonionspaceraider said:

Pollycat said:

It's not a case of prejudice and stigma and pre-judging people with mental health issues.
It's not even definite that the OP's BIL does actually have mental health issues.
Just because he says he's depressed doesn't mean that he actually is depressed.

I think you have been unnecessarily hard on the OP.
BIL has shown himself to be selfish during his last stay and it seems he intends to do the same this time - if he can get his own way.
There is nothing 'morally reprehensible' about what the OP has said or done.

The following is not aimed at OP - or that situation, but picking up on Pollcats points - which I feel are important to read and may give someone pause for thought


 Are you being ironic here? @Pollycat @Pollycat

Part of the stigma of having a Mental Health (MH) issue, is that because it is an invisible illness - people can assume, exactly like you are right here,  -  that a person is lying.  You have just denied showing stigma, whilst showing stigma.  I am certain you are better person than this - kind and compassionate. 

If I said I had any other illness but you couldn't see it, would you assume that it would mean that I have not actually been diagnosed with it?  No, of course not.  

This adds to the judgement and stigma  - as it is actually gaslighting a person with mental health issues, having the constant insinuation of people not believing you - to tell or insinuate an ill person is not actually unwell.  This actually can make a person feel worse. Alone, afraid, self-loathing,  paranoid and isolated, amongst many other things

People with MH issues can go through life losing friends due to this very thing.  It is heart-breaking.  Other people can seem  only become temporary fixture, until they find out about the illness, then they fade into the background again

Not as a deliberate act, but other peoples reactions to mental health illnesses can actually make them worse (in my experience) and I can honestly say I have had people doubt me - assume they can somehow see inside my head, check my dopamine levels, read my thoughts etc.  

The only way a person with a mental health issue can prove to someone else how bad they are feeling  - is something concrete, so people have something firm to believe - such as injuring themselves ...and this does not end well for them - and by then everyone is stood around shaking their heads saying more should be done tut tut. 

I do hope that if you have contact with any people with MH issues you show a more understanding approach 

Mental health is killing people in absolute droves.  The amount of people this year alone that have chosen to end their lives by their own hands, is surely proof enough that this needs to be taken very seriously. 

There is little to be gained by faking your entire persona for 100% of your life so you can 'fake' depression.  I feel desperately sad that anyone would even think that, if I am honest.  I wish I could help you understand.

I only talk from personal experience and and I know other people will have different outlooks, of course, we are but only human.

No. I'm not being ironic.

I'll say it again:
just because someone says they are depressed doesn't mean they are.

You are talking generally about mental illness.
You don't know the BIL and neither do I.
The fact is - the OP's BIL has not been diagnosed with depression.
So please don't accuse me of gaslighting or of anything else.

You do not know me.
You do not know my history or my family's history.
Please don't display passive aggression towards me by commenting on what type of person you think I am or hoping that if I have contact with any people with MH issues I show a more understanding approach.
I do not need you to 'help me understand' mental illness.

I have not said anyone is 'faking' depression.

I have commented on this thread solely about what the OP has said about his BIL.
You have taken it off-topic to soap-box about depression generally and in an attempt to criticise me.

I wasn't aiming much of my post AT you directly, only than the 'are you being ironic?' question.

No accusations were made against you personally but I can see how you might think that as the  rest just seemed to flow out on the same post where you were tagged - I do like talking about Mental health - as the more people talk the less concern others have of coming forwards.  To be clearer to people,  I perhaps should have made two separate posts 

''I have not said anyone is 'faking' depression''.......................  well you typed this too:-  'Just because he says he's depressed doesn't mean that he actually is depressed.' 
This is what i meant by being ironic - this was the only question I had for you. But you stand by that, while  I still don't understand the duel mindset, but I don't think us discussing it any further will help - so will leave that one there

'I do not need you to 'help me understand' mental illness.'   
Fair enough -  However, other people may find my message helpful, I have had three inbox messages following on from my post, from people who want to talk -  but do not feel able or willing to talk about MH on an open forum like I do. 

' to soap-box about depression generally' -  I thought you didn't like passive aggression? I was talking from my own experiences about mental health and you have accused me of soapboxing.  One of the people who has private messaged me has said this type of thing is perhaps why there  is less honest open dialogue on these forums about MH issues. It is an interesting train of thought but the more talking that is done the more others feel it is OK to reach out. 

 I was talking about mental health generally, and yes this does need discussing more -  it is good to be informed so if a friend or family member comes to us with an issue we can be more understanding - again not you personally -  but public as a group.  

I don't feel we have anything further to discuss Polly which is fine, you are entitled to your opinions but I feel we will never understand each others point of view, and I mean that in good grace - I feel it is better to let this particular topic go  (i.e. this dialogue between you and I)  -  if you don't mind. 

 If anyone else wants to inbox me please feel free, in total confidence - I am a long standing MH sufferer and run a support group

Pollycat

This forum is not really the appropriate platform to discuss mental health generally.
There are other forums specifically for that.
And it's unfair to hijack someone else's thread with open discussion about mental health when depression has not even been diagnosed.  

elsien

The forum has changed - when the arms and discussion time were open, those were the parts of the forum where you could discuss more general things such as mental health. 
Those closed because the forum team/owners decided it was taking too many resources given that this is effectively an unmoderated forum. Any threads that do veer into the realm of discussion or get slightly contentious now tend to either be closed, individual posts removed, or sometimes the whole thread vanishes without warning.
I think it would be unfair on the OP to risk the thread being removed so on that basis I do agree that perhaps messaging anyone who PMs you might be better off getting a link to other forums which welcome the discusion. 

pickledonionspaceraider

Pollycat said:

This forum is not really the appropriate platform to discuss mental health generally. 
There are other forums specifically for that.
And it's unfair to hijack someone else's thread with open discussion about mental health when depression has not even been diagnosed.  

Like I have already said, I don't think we will agree.

If you feel it unfair to hijack a thread, then the best point would be silence and to not contribute towards said 'hijacking'

You don't need to respond further. Thank you for your valuable input - it has all been noted. 

pickledonionspaceraider

elsien said:

The forum has changed - when the arms and discussion time were open, those were the parts of the forum where you could discuss more general things such as mental health. 
Those closed because the forum team/owners decided it was taking too many resources given that this is effectively an unmoderated forum. Any threads that do veer into the realm of discussion or get slightly contentious now tend to either be closed, individual posts removed, or sometimes the whole thread vanishes without warning.
I think it would be unfair on the OP to risk the thread being removed so on that basis I do agree that perhaps messaging anyone who PMs you might be better off getting a link to other forums which welcome the discusion. 

Yes absolutely, I run a forum and support group (not on this site) so I am always happy to signpost anyone who wants to speak further

I never really used to go on the Arms, and didn't realise it had closed now ooooo.  This new look forum takes some getting used to really 

movinghelp

This may be too old a thread but wanted to echo previous posters and say I'd be amazed if he can get a visa sorted in under a year. I came out on a 457 and converted it to a 186 but it still took me 15 months to go from permanent resident to citizen despite having an Australian child, husband and mortgage plus full employment.