Brother in law wants to move in

newbie26

My BIL had an abusive ex, he got out of the relationship and moved to Australia where he lived (rent free) with his aunt/uncle and worked on & off on a tourist work visa thing for a year and a half.

He then went on holiday in Asia and met a girl who lived in Brazil, he followed her back there (to extend the holiday I guess?). Then Covid happened, he was adamant about staying there but the family convinced him to fly to me and my partner who are in the UK (the rest of the family is in Malaysia). He was very resentful about the family "making" him fly to the UK. During his time with us we did make him pay a minimal amount of rent (£300 approx inc food & bills), he got a well paid job (£175 a day) which involved working in London and he would stay sleep in a hotel a couple of nights a week, due to this he decided to reduce his rent. He ended up living with us for a year like this.

He then decided enough was enough, he hated his job (4am starts) and he was going to Brazil, he said he wanted to have a life there, buy property, get a job etc etc. It seemed a shame he couldn't wait an extra month for our wedding as my now wife had none of her family there (due to travel restrictions), which was tough. She didn't tell him to stay, but to do what he felt was best. I personally feel as a brother he should have been there no matter what.

5 months went by and he has now broken up with the Brazilian g/f (right after she splashed out on his birthday), from what I can ascertain he didn't really make an effort to get a job there and it was more like a big holiday as they spent most of the time travelling round Brazil. He is complaining he is depressed and needs therapy due to his past abusive ex. He gave my wife 1-2 weeks notice that he intended to come back to the UK and stay with us.

He has now flown back to our house and his new plan is to get a permanent residency in Australia (a company he worked for has offered him a job and will sort the legal side). The only snag is this will take 5-7 months (again apparently), however this gives him the opportunity to build his funds back up (after using them on holiday). He is looking at going back to his old job in London and getting therepy for his mental health.

My wife obviously feels a duty of care for her younger sibling, and he is ok to live with. However our house is small, we are looking to start a family and I must admit I'm a selfish only child and I like my space. I'm not sure if living with us is really the best thing, he is nearly 30 now so really needs to start standing on his own two feet.

Do we sympathize with his mental issues and let him stay almost free in the house? Do we charge him full rent? Or do we just say go and rent somewhere?

SaverRate

Go and rent elsewhere would be my opinion but everyone is different. I couldn't have any of my family live with me long term. (a couple of days max) Not because I dont like them but because I like my own space with my Wife and my dog. It wouldn't feel like 'my' house with other family living here.

Mojisola

newbie26 said:

He has now flown back to our house and his new plan is to get a permanent residency in Australia (a company he worked for has offered him a job and will sort the legal side). The only snag is this will take 5-7 months (again apparently), however this gives him the opportunity to build his funds back up (after using them on holiday). He is looking at going back to his old job in London and getting therepy for his mental health.

So he wants you two to subsidize his living expenses after spending all his money having a good time?

I would always make room for a relative in need but he doesn't fit that category.  I would say your priorities should be each other and your plans for a family.

sk2402005

I sympathize with your situation, where i too was in a similar (although less complex) situation with my brother in law, where he lived with us pretty much rent free for many months, and wouldn't/couldn't hold down a job, and wouldn't listen to us to make any sensible decisions.

Unfortunately you just need to pretty much just cut him off/make him leave, where he clearly isn't actually interested in you or your partner, hes just looking for a free ride.

Getting your partner to agree to such action will be tough (unless they have had enough too)

pinkshoes

He is taking the p*ss!!

I'd let him stay on a full board basis, but charge him the FULL going rate for full board. (e.g. the going monthly rate for a room plus a third of all bills including food added on to make it a monthly total). Alcohol not included unfortunately.

Depends on which area you are in as to how much you charge!

TBagpuss

You and your wife need to discuss this, but it would be entirely reasonable to tell him that it's not going to work to have him living with you for months, so he can stay for a specific, limited time (e.g. one month) to enable him to find alternative accommodation.

Decide with your wife what you think is reasonable in terms of him paying you rent and what else he needs to do (e.g. cleaning his own room, doing a share of the cooking if he expects to eat with you etc) 

The key is that you and your wife need to agree on what both of you are comfortable with, and then have a united front with him. You say before he decided to reduce the rent as he was staying away - that isn't really down to him; he should pay what he agrees with you and if he wants to make changes, either agree them with you in advance or move out if you can't agree.

As you mention most of the family are in Malaysia, are there cultural expectations here? Is you wife expected (either by her family or her brother) to house him / look after him regardless of what you and she want?  

If you and your wife decide together that he can stay they charge him a reasonable amount - his wish to build up savings is not your responsibility to subsidise, so if he is planning to live with you because it helps him save money, you don't have to agree just because it is convenient to him.

Make sure you charge him a fair amount - taking into account bills, any food he expects you to provide, as well as the local going rate for a room in a shared house. 

Pollycat

I would have taken exception to being told "I'm coming back to live with you in a couple of weeks and intend to stay for around 6 months and expect you to provide food and board for me whilst I save up to go off again".
That's not how it works (at least it doesn't with me).
He's treating you as a convenience.
Just as he treated his Aunt and Uncle in Australia.
He's not standing on his own two feet because nobody has ever made him do that.

He seems to expect everybody to do what he wants, provide what he wants at a price he thinks is reasonable.
He's living the life of Riley at everybody else's expense.
I would suggest he finds somewhere to live in London as that will be where he is working.

Has he been diagnosed with depression? I'd guess not.

TBagpuss asks a good question about cultural expectations.

One thing you may wish to consider:
if he is travelling up to London using public transport, staying in hotels etc is he going to expose you and your partner to covid more than you are exposed at present?

Savvy_Sue

TBagpuss said:

As you mention most of the family are in Malaysia, are there cultural expectations here? Is you wife expected (either by her family or her brother) to house him / look after him regardless of what you and she want?  

Almost certainly ... so make sure you work these in your favour, ie making clear your OWN cultural expectations! 

You and she need to present a united front. That may take quite a bit of talking through: she is likely to have pressure from him, pressure from the family in Malaysia, pressure from herself because she may feel she HAS to do X, Y or Z. But she doesn't: Give her permission to blame you if she would like to: "of course I'd love to have baby brother here, but newbie doesn't understand these things and he is adamant that bb cannot stay with us."

Presumably if bb wants a free ride, he can always go back to Malaysia while he waits for his Australian visa. He's a grown man, depressed or not, and no-one forced him to leave Brazil either time. 

Brie

I'd take the line that if you went off to work in London and could stay in a hotel a couple of nights a week you would still have to pay your mortgage, heating, taxes etc so why shouldn't he?  

A couple of weeks to get himself sorted and find an convenient flat is fine.  Staying for the better part of a year, no.

RAS

Definitely discuss and agree this with your wife, before tackling the situation.

Until recently over 20,000 Australian nationals who were stuck living overseas by Covid for anything up to 21 months. Plus non-nationals with permanent residency. Some of these folks just happened to be overseas when the borders closed at short notice and got stuck. They're supposed to open up to students and high wealth non-residents this month.

So even now, the idea that BIL is just going to be able to return to Australia when he feels like it is risky, even if he gets a visa. If there's another scare, it is more than possible that the Australian government will either close the international border, or some of the state borders.  And if that happens entry might only be allowed if someone has a booking for mandatory quarantine, which was in very short supply.

So you could be stuck with him for much longer then he thinks. You need to agree a deadline for him to move out, whatever else you decide.

Apart from the obvious risk that he might bring Covid home, has your wife spoken to him about his vaccination status? And ensured that he has the required health insurance in case he becomes unwell?

I agree that cultural expectations may be part of the dynamic here, but by the sounds of things BIL has not lived in Malaysia for about 5 years. So he is going to have to learn to live with the cultural expectations of the countries in which he lives. Except of course that he is choosing countries where he hopes to rely on his expectations of hospitality, from family and his ex-girlfriend.

newbie26

Some great advice here that I have taken onboard and has given me some confidence tackling the issue. There are some assumptions id like to clear up/clarify:

The direct family are mixed (UK/Malaysian) the siblings have lived most of their adult life in the UK, and are UK citizens (apart from the eldest who moved to Malaysia with the parents). As he is a UK citizen it has been next to impossible to get into (and out) of the Malaysia over the last 2 years. The Malaysian Mother is very much for him paying rent!

When living in Aus, instead of rent they made him put an amount into savings instead.

As I said he isn't the worst person to live with, and does cook as he is a Chef.

He's job in London they made them test every morning, so he is actually safer then us.

I think we will set him timelines for getting diagnosed, getting a job and when he has to start paying his way/ultimately moving out. I'm worried about the Aus thing taking ages.

I think what has happened is both myself and wife are not very confrontational, she  wants to come across as "our door is always open" and doesn't want to be seen as profiting from family. Now he has starting talking about mental health issues its even trickier for us to deal with. I didn't really take control last time as Covid had made things very difficult for everyone and I wanted to avoid any upset.