Claiming PIP via RelayUK

[Deleted User]

Alice_Holt said:

Deleted_User said:

poppy12345 said:

Muttleythefrog said:

Deleted_User said:

Muttleythefrog said:

Deleted_User said:

Muttleythefrog said:

Deleted_User said:

13a Can I use the following ..

I can (and do) drive – but never on my own – Because I need help during a journey when I’m driving - for example : I get stressed from the thought of not being able to fill up my car with petrol or if I were to break down – I would be unable to cope with either of these circumstances.

I am unable to refuel the car myself – because I would be unable to physically fill the car with fuel and I would need to walk to the cashier to pay – which I would be unable to do.

And if I was to break down – I would be unable to call the breakdown service and explain the problem

As above... I feel you're clutching at straws trying to make things fit... and I presume hoping eventually someone says what you want to hear. 

Ultimately it appears your difficulties translate very well for activity 12 but not activity 11 but you are more expert on your circumstances than people here. If you disagree there is absolutely nothing to stop you documenting your difficulties in activity 11 but you've been given consistent advice here for what looks like months. If you do try to stretch your argument to the DWP regarding being unable to follow a route while driving due to mental health problems/cognitive disfunction then it may be that you conclude you should not be anywhere near a road in a vehicle... so do think about that!

Answer the questions honestly and give full details of your problems in the available space for each relevant activity.

I didn't say that I was unable to follow a route  due to mental health problems - I simply pointed out my difficulties in refuelling and contacting the breakdown service, should I ever need to ....

But as long as DWP follow their own rules on mobility - I see no problems in earning 12 points through 14 alone

Just one more question -

Could you confirm that the date by which the PIP form must be returned (ie (originally)14th Jan) is the  postmarked date/ date posted – as opposed to the received date ?

Because I still have not received a letter, confirming the extended deadline - I used relayuk  to ask them, before christmas

If not – it took 10 days to arrive and potentially the same to be returned – leaving just 10 days to fill it in - which is unfair and virtually impossible to achieve

Regarding the bolded - I am not saying you are either but it is the only conceivable relevance to task 11 (as you're suggesting stress interferes with your ability to complete a journey) and hence I tried to point out the likely fruitlessness of your direction of thought. The task is about being able to plan and navigate a journey. I agree it seems likely you should score points on task 12 and hence suggest focus your efforts to describe problems that are relevant to point scoring descriptors in relevant tasks. Nothing to stop you documenting what you think is relevant disabilities on the form if you disagree with the repeated and consistent advice here... it is after all your claim and persuading people here of anything won't get you PIP regardless.

Regarding the form - I don't honestly know but you're into the realm of haggling over a day or two when you're getting and using up weeks. When you do return form (which you could do first class if necessary) just flag up to them you were given 2 week extension in contact with DWP on date x. I do not think the DWP send any extension confirmation - so for goodness sake don't sit waiting for such even if they've agreed to send.  I've advised to focus on getting the form prepared even though you are hoping to get help from CAB. I would certainly not rely on that help (especially in the current climate where organisations are up and down regarding service due to pandemic) and completing the form (in a mock format if necessary on separate sheets/computer) in preparedness could only help in any support you get from them. What I want you to avoid is the car crash of a deadline you cannot meet and I understand you now have 3 weeks which should be sufficient. If heading towards that extended time limit then send first class perhaps and ensure get proof of posting (free at post office) at least.

Good luck!

I have already mocked up my form
Ready to fill it I and send it off should CAB fail me!!
Although it's going to be mainly printed
Should I attach individual pages to individual activity or the whole lot at the end?
I have tons of medical docs and have a brilliant supportive doc from physio. 
Just one potential problem - my GP is off with covid and she is the only one who knows me! 

I wouldn't worry too much about GP... at the end of the day not necessary and they may be of limited specific help.

Agree with this. A GP doesn't spend any time with you to know how your conditions affect you against the PIP descriptors. They don't see you wash/dress/undress/cook etc etc. Letters from a GP aren't the best evidence to send to. 

So - in order of importance - if not GP
Is it my info that they rely on or consultants ? 
Or perhaps wife /partners? 

        It's the information you give about how your health conditions affect your daily life (and in particular the PIP activities), as interpreted by the ATOS / Capita / Maximus healthcare professional (HCP) who performs your PIP assessment that is crucial.

        Any relevant confirming evidence - medical, letters from carers, etc can be helpful.  


     The key is having a good awareness of the PIP activities, descriptors, and points system. Understanding how your health conditions fit into these actives, given the importance of "reliably" and "majority of the time" in PIP decisions.
Then explaining this honestly, straight-forwardly, consistently, and as clearly as you can both in your form and to the HCP.
    Be prepared to appeal if necessary.
 
    Attempts to be overly clever, an argumentative attitude, wilful and deliberate obfuscation are not received well by HCP, DWP DM's, and tribunal judges. If they get any sense they are being 'played' by the claimant - it rarely ends well, Deleted_User.  

I hope that you are not implying that I am not entitled  to claim PIP ? or am trying to be too clever - because I can assure you that I am not .....

I am a genuine claimant - who is just trying to ensure that I am treated fairly and win my case !

poppy12345

Deleted_User said:

Alice_Holt said:

Deleted_User said:

poppy12345 said:

Muttleythefrog said:

Deleted_User said:

Muttleythefrog said:

Deleted_User said:

Muttleythefrog said:

Deleted_User said:

13a Can I use the following ..

I can (and do) drive – but never on my own – Because I need help during a journey when I’m driving - for example : I get stressed from the thought of not being able to fill up my car with petrol or if I were to break down – I would be unable to cope with either of these circumstances.

I am unable to refuel the car myself – because I would be unable to physically fill the car with fuel and I would need to walk to the cashier to pay – which I would be unable to do.

And if I was to break down – I would be unable to call the breakdown service and explain the problem

As above... I feel you're clutching at straws trying to make things fit... and I presume hoping eventually someone says what you want to hear. 

Ultimately it appears your difficulties translate very well for activity 12 but not activity 11 but you are more expert on your circumstances than people here. If you disagree there is absolutely nothing to stop you documenting your difficulties in activity 11 but you've been given consistent advice here for what looks like months. If you do try to stretch your argument to the DWP regarding being unable to follow a route while driving due to mental health problems/cognitive disfunction then it may be that you conclude you should not be anywhere near a road in a vehicle... so do think about that!

Answer the questions honestly and give full details of your problems in the available space for each relevant activity.

I didn't say that I was unable to follow a route  due to mental health problems - I simply pointed out my difficulties in refuelling and contacting the breakdown service, should I ever need to ....

But as long as DWP follow their own rules on mobility - I see no problems in earning 12 points through 14 alone

Just one more question -

Could you confirm that the date by which the PIP form must be returned (ie (originally)14th Jan) is the  postmarked date/ date posted – as opposed to the received date ?

Because I still have not received a letter, confirming the extended deadline - I used relayuk  to ask them, before christmas

If not – it took 10 days to arrive and potentially the same to be returned – leaving just 10 days to fill it in - which is unfair and virtually impossible to achieve

Regarding the bolded - I am not saying you are either but it is the only conceivable relevance to task 11 (as you're suggesting stress interferes with your ability to complete a journey) and hence I tried to point out the likely fruitlessness of your direction of thought. The task is about being able to plan and navigate a journey. I agree it seems likely you should score points on task 12 and hence suggest focus your efforts to describe problems that are relevant to point scoring descriptors in relevant tasks. Nothing to stop you documenting what you think is relevant disabilities on the form if you disagree with the repeated and consistent advice here... it is after all your claim and persuading people here of anything won't get you PIP regardless.

Regarding the form - I don't honestly know but you're into the realm of haggling over a day or two when you're getting and using up weeks. When you do return form (which you could do first class if necessary) just flag up to them you were given 2 week extension in contact with DWP on date x. I do not think the DWP send any extension confirmation - so for goodness sake don't sit waiting for such even if they've agreed to send.  I've advised to focus on getting the form prepared even though you are hoping to get help from CAB. I would certainly not rely on that help (especially in the current climate where organisations are up and down regarding service due to pandemic) and completing the form (in a mock format if necessary on separate sheets/computer) in preparedness could only help in any support you get from them. What I want you to avoid is the car crash of a deadline you cannot meet and I understand you now have 3 weeks which should be sufficient. If heading towards that extended time limit then send first class perhaps and ensure get proof of posting (free at post office) at least.

Good luck!

I have already mocked up my form
Ready to fill it I and send it off should CAB fail me!!
Although it's going to be mainly printed
Should I attach individual pages to individual activity or the whole lot at the end?
I have tons of medical docs and have a brilliant supportive doc from physio. 
Just one potential problem - my GP is off with covid and she is the only one who knows me! 

I wouldn't worry too much about GP... at the end of the day not necessary and they may be of limited specific help.

Agree with this. A GP doesn't spend any time with you to know how your conditions affect you against the PIP descriptors. They don't see you wash/dress/undress/cook etc etc. Letters from a GP aren't the best evidence to send to. 

So - in order of importance - if not GP
Is it my info that they rely on or consultants ? 
Or perhaps wife /partners? 

        It's the information you give about how your health conditions affect your daily life (and in particular the PIP activities), as interpreted by the ATOS / Capita / Maximus healthcare professional (HCP) who performs your PIP assessment that is crucial.

        Any relevant confirming evidence - medical, letters from carers, etc can be helpful.  


     The key is having a good awareness of the PIP activities, descriptors, and points system. Understanding how your health conditions fit into these actives, given the importance of "reliably" and "majority of the time" in PIP decisions.
Then explaining this honestly, straight-forwardly, consistently, and as clearly as you can both in your form and to the HCP.
    Be prepared to appeal if necessary.
 
    Attempts to be overly clever, an argumentative attitude, wilful and deliberate obfuscation are not received well by HCP, DWP DM's, and tribunal judges. If they get any sense they are being 'played' by the claimant - it rarely ends well, Deleted_User.  

I hope that you are not implying that I am not entitled  to claim PIP ? or am trying to be too clever - because I can assure you that I am not .....

I am a genuine claimant - who is just trying to ensure that I am treated fairly and win my case !

I don't see anywhere, where Alice has said anything like that. All i see is honest advice. Anyone can claim PIP but whether they're successfully awarded is a totally different matter.

Muttleythefrog

Deleted_User said:

Alice_Holt said:

Deleted_User said:

poppy12345 said:

Muttleythefrog said:

Deleted_User said:

Muttleythefrog said:

Deleted_User said:

Muttleythefrog said:

Deleted_User said:

13a Can I use the following ..

I can (and do) drive – but never on my own – Because I need help during a journey when I’m driving - for example : I get stressed from the thought of not being able to fill up my car with petrol or if I were to break down – I would be unable to cope with either of these circumstances.

I am unable to refuel the car myself – because I would be unable to physically fill the car with fuel and I would need to walk to the cashier to pay – which I would be unable to do.

And if I was to break down – I would be unable to call the breakdown service and explain the problem

As above... I feel you're clutching at straws trying to make things fit... and I presume hoping eventually someone says what you want to hear. 

Ultimately it appears your difficulties translate very well for activity 12 but not activity 11 but you are more expert on your circumstances than people here. If you disagree there is absolutely nothing to stop you documenting your difficulties in activity 11 but you've been given consistent advice here for what looks like months. If you do try to stretch your argument to the DWP regarding being unable to follow a route while driving due to mental health problems/cognitive disfunction then it may be that you conclude you should not be anywhere near a road in a vehicle... so do think about that!

Answer the questions honestly and give full details of your problems in the available space for each relevant activity.

I didn't say that I was unable to follow a route  due to mental health problems - I simply pointed out my difficulties in refuelling and contacting the breakdown service, should I ever need to ....

But as long as DWP follow their own rules on mobility - I see no problems in earning 12 points through 14 alone

Just one more question -

Could you confirm that the date by which the PIP form must be returned (ie (originally)14th Jan) is the  postmarked date/ date posted – as opposed to the received date ?

Because I still have not received a letter, confirming the extended deadline - I used relayuk  to ask them, before christmas

If not – it took 10 days to arrive and potentially the same to be returned – leaving just 10 days to fill it in - which is unfair and virtually impossible to achieve

Regarding the bolded - I am not saying you are either but it is the only conceivable relevance to task 11 (as you're suggesting stress interferes with your ability to complete a journey) and hence I tried to point out the likely fruitlessness of your direction of thought. The task is about being able to plan and navigate a journey. I agree it seems likely you should score points on task 12 and hence suggest focus your efforts to describe problems that are relevant to point scoring descriptors in relevant tasks. Nothing to stop you documenting what you think is relevant disabilities on the form if you disagree with the repeated and consistent advice here... it is after all your claim and persuading people here of anything won't get you PIP regardless.

Regarding the form - I don't honestly know but you're into the realm of haggling over a day or two when you're getting and using up weeks. When you do return form (which you could do first class if necessary) just flag up to them you were given 2 week extension in contact with DWP on date x. I do not think the DWP send any extension confirmation - so for goodness sake don't sit waiting for such even if they've agreed to send.  I've advised to focus on getting the form prepared even though you are hoping to get help from CAB. I would certainly not rely on that help (especially in the current climate where organisations are up and down regarding service due to pandemic) and completing the form (in a mock format if necessary on separate sheets/computer) in preparedness could only help in any support you get from them. What I want you to avoid is the car crash of a deadline you cannot meet and I understand you now have 3 weeks which should be sufficient. If heading towards that extended time limit then send first class perhaps and ensure get proof of posting (free at post office) at least.

Good luck!

I have already mocked up my form
Ready to fill it I and send it off should CAB fail me!!
Although it's going to be mainly printed
Should I attach individual pages to individual activity or the whole lot at the end?
I have tons of medical docs and have a brilliant supportive doc from physio. 
Just one potential problem - my GP is off with covid and she is the only one who knows me! 

I wouldn't worry too much about GP... at the end of the day not necessary and they may be of limited specific help.

Agree with this. A GP doesn't spend any time with you to know how your conditions affect you against the PIP descriptors. They don't see you wash/dress/undress/cook etc etc. Letters from a GP aren't the best evidence to send to. 

So - in order of importance - if not GP
Is it my info that they rely on or consultants ? 
Or perhaps wife /partners? 

        It's the information you give about how your health conditions affect your daily life (and in particular the PIP activities), as interpreted by the ATOS / Capita / Maximus healthcare professional (HCP) who performs your PIP assessment that is crucial.

        Any relevant confirming evidence - medical, letters from carers, etc can be helpful.  


     The key is having a good awareness of the PIP activities, descriptors, and points system. Understanding how your health conditions fit into these actives, given the importance of "reliably" and "majority of the time" in PIP decisions.
Then explaining this honestly, straight-forwardly, consistently, and as clearly as you can both in your form and to the HCP.
    Be prepared to appeal if necessary.
 
    Attempts to be overly clever, an argumentative attitude, wilful and deliberate obfuscation are not received well by HCP, DWP DM's, and tribunal judges. If they get any sense they are being 'played' by the claimant - it rarely ends well, Deleted_User.  

I hope that you are not implying that I am not entitled  to claim PIP ? or am trying to be too clever - because I can assure you that I am not .....

I am a genuine claimant - who is just trying to ensure that I am treated fairly and win my case !

She's giving solid (and clever) advice as she regularly does. But there is a what I'd describe as a cautionary paragraph at the end which I think you should take note of - because you could damage your legitimate claim by reducing the effectiveness of the best evidence you have which is your testimony of your disabilities and real experience. Do not indulge in silly arguments - and I have to honest with you...I would do you a disservice by not being... you can do it here with people who will be far more sympathetic to you and your getting your entitlements than a faceless DWP DM who needs to meet some targets or a HCP who just wants to get your assessment over with efficiently as they're already overbooked. For example if you want to argue with a HCP that getting stressed over refuelling your car is relevant to Mobility 1 then they may just consider your legitimate and point scoring description of problems associated with Mobility 2 as being less reliable... or they'll spend less time getting confirmation of the problems that are relevant. Basically you're being guided to cut down risks of a ending up with a poor decision... and sadly those are all too common as is the poor experience of the claim process.

Many of us have seen the best and worst of the system with our own claims if not in advising others... I came to MSE originally for advice after being refused DLA... the DWP DMs who I had never met explained to me how I didn't suffer the problems I was suffering and later a tribunal panel member..a GP... threatened to come and punch me (after I was argumentative over the medical profession)... something that still to this day I find barely believable (and I'm sure many a reader too because I've never heard of similar since) well over a decade on and vividly I recall the red face of the panel judge. I ended up getting a suitable DLA award with a new claim and now suitable (but with some error) PIP award but I'm aware of the pitfalls as many are here.

People here are advising you such that you have best chance of getting appropriate award... nobody here can determine your entitlement and I assume nobody here will be determining your entitlement... and you are a better expert on your own circumstances which you are encouraged to describe on the form (or linked sheets), with any supporting evidence and in any assessment.

You've been given outstanding advice over the months I can see and hopefully you will get success at the earliest possibility with claim.

[Deleted User]

Muttleythefrog said:

Deleted_User said:

Alice_Holt said:

Deleted_User said:

poppy12345 said:

Muttleythefrog said:

Deleted_User said:

Muttleythefrog said:

Deleted_User said:

Muttleythefrog said:

Deleted_User said:

13a Can I use the following ..

I can (and do) drive – but never on my own – Because I need help during a journey when I’m driving - for example : I get stressed from the thought of not being able to fill up my car with petrol or if I were to break down – I would be unable to cope with either of these circumstances.

I am unable to refuel the car myself – because I would be unable to physically fill the car with fuel and I would need to walk to the cashier to pay – which I would be unable to do.

And if I was to break down – I would be unable to call the breakdown service and explain the problem

As above... I feel you're clutching at straws trying to make things fit... and I presume hoping eventually someone says what you want to hear. 

Ultimately it appears your difficulties translate very well for activity 12 but not activity 11 but you are more expert on your circumstances than people here. If you disagree there is absolutely nothing to stop you documenting your difficulties in activity 11 but you've been given consistent advice here for what looks like months. If you do try to stretch your argument to the DWP regarding being unable to follow a route while driving due to mental health problems/cognitive disfunction then it may be that you conclude you should not be anywhere near a road in a vehicle... so do think about that!

Answer the questions honestly and give full details of your problems in the available space for each relevant activity.

I didn't say that I was unable to follow a route  due to mental health problems - I simply pointed out my difficulties in refuelling and contacting the breakdown service, should I ever need to ....

But as long as DWP follow their own rules on mobility - I see no problems in earning 12 points through 14 alone

Just one more question -

Could you confirm that the date by which the PIP form must be returned (ie (originally)14th Jan) is the  postmarked date/ date posted – as opposed to the received date ?

Because I still have not received a letter, confirming the extended deadline - I used relayuk  to ask them, before christmas

If not – it took 10 days to arrive and potentially the same to be returned – leaving just 10 days to fill it in - which is unfair and virtually impossible to achieve

Regarding the bolded - I am not saying you are either but it is the only conceivable relevance to task 11 (as you're suggesting stress interferes with your ability to complete a journey) and hence I tried to point out the likely fruitlessness of your direction of thought. The task is about being able to plan and navigate a journey. I agree it seems likely you should score points on task 12 and hence suggest focus your efforts to describe problems that are relevant to point scoring descriptors in relevant tasks. Nothing to stop you documenting what you think is relevant disabilities on the form if you disagree with the repeated and consistent advice here... it is after all your claim and persuading people here of anything won't get you PIP regardless.

Regarding the form - I don't honestly know but you're into the realm of haggling over a day or two when you're getting and using up weeks. When you do return form (which you could do first class if necessary) just flag up to them you were given 2 week extension in contact with DWP on date x. I do not think the DWP send any extension confirmation - so for goodness sake don't sit waiting for such even if they've agreed to send.  I've advised to focus on getting the form prepared even though you are hoping to get help from CAB. I would certainly not rely on that help (especially in the current climate where organisations are up and down regarding service due to pandemic) and completing the form (in a mock format if necessary on separate sheets/computer) in preparedness could only help in any support you get from them. What I want you to avoid is the car crash of a deadline you cannot meet and I understand you now have 3 weeks which should be sufficient. If heading towards that extended time limit then send first class perhaps and ensure get proof of posting (free at post office) at least.

Good luck!

I have already mocked up my form
Ready to fill it I and send it off should CAB fail me!!
Although it's going to be mainly printed
Should I attach individual pages to individual activity or the whole lot at the end?
I have tons of medical docs and have a brilliant supportive doc from physio. 
Just one potential problem - my GP is off with covid and she is the only one who knows me! 

I wouldn't worry too much about GP... at the end of the day not necessary and they may be of limited specific help.

Agree with this. A GP doesn't spend any time with you to know how your conditions affect you against the PIP descriptors. They don't see you wash/dress/undress/cook etc etc. Letters from a GP aren't the best evidence to send to. 

So - in order of importance - if not GP
Is it my info that they rely on or consultants ? 
Or perhaps wife /partners? 

        It's the information you give about how your health conditions affect your daily life (and in particular the PIP activities), as interpreted by the ATOS / Capita / Maximus healthcare professional (HCP) who performs your PIP assessment that is crucial.

        Any relevant confirming evidence - medical, letters from carers, etc can be helpful.  


     The key is having a good awareness of the PIP activities, descriptors, and points system. Understanding how your health conditions fit into these actives, given the importance of "reliably" and "majority of the time" in PIP decisions.
Then explaining this honestly, straight-forwardly, consistently, and as clearly as you can both in your form and to the HCP.
    Be prepared to appeal if necessary.
 
    Attempts to be overly clever, an argumentative attitude, wilful and deliberate obfuscation are not received well by HCP, DWP DM's, and tribunal judges. If they get any sense they are being 'played' by the claimant - it rarely ends well, Deleted_User.  

I hope that you are not implying that I am not entitled  to claim PIP ? or am trying to be too clever - because I can assure you that I am not .....

I am a genuine claimant - who is just trying to ensure that I am treated fairly and win my case !

She's giving solid (and clever) advice as she regularly does. But there is a what I'd describe as a cautionary paragraph at the end which I think you should take note of - because you could damage your legitimate claim by reducing the effectiveness of the best evidence you have which is your testimony of your disabilities and real experience. Do not indulge in silly arguments - and I have to honest with you...I would do you a disservice by not being... you can do it here with people who will be far more sympathetic to you and your getting your entitlements than a faceless DWP DM who needs to meet some targets or a HCP who just wants to get your assessment over with efficiently as they're already overbooked. For example if you want to argue with a HCP that getting stressed over refuelling your car is relevant to Mobility 1 then they may just consider your legitimate and point scoring description of problems associated with Mobility 2 as being less reliable... or they'll spend less time getting confirmation of the problems that are relevant. Basically you're being guided to cut down risks of a ending up with a poor decision... and sadly those are all too common as is the poor experience of the claim process.

Many of us have seen the best and worst of the system with our own claims if not in advising others... I came to MSE originally for advice after being refused DLA... the DWP DMs who I had never met explained to me how I didn't suffer the problems I was suffering and later a tribunal panel member..a GP... threatened to come and punch me (after I was argumentative over the medical profession)... something that still to this day I find barely believable (and I'm sure many a reader too because I've never heard of similar since) well over a decade on and vividly I recall the red face of the panel judge. I ended up getting a suitable DLA award with a new claim and now suitable (but with some error) PIP award but I'm aware of the pitfalls as many are here.

People here are advising you such that you have best chance of getting appropriate award... nobody here can determine your entitlement and I assume nobody here will be determining your entitlement... and you are a better expert on your own circumstances which you are encouraged to describe on the form, with any supporting evidence and in any assessment.

You've been given outstanding advice over the months I can see and hopefully you will get success at the earliest possibility with claim.

OK thanks and I apologise if anyone was offended
I am still waiting on CA but will use their wording on my form