How do ordinary people make the switch to electric vehicles ?

Flight3287462

Jenni_D said:

Flight3287462 said:

Jenni_D said:

Flight3287462 said:

BOWFER said:

Oh god, this old nonsense spouted by people in pubs when electric cars are mentioned.
Firstly, less than 10% of cobalt mined is used in electric cars.
Secondly, the child labour 'thing' was restricted to the democratic republic of congo and car manufacturers stopped sourcing from there years ago, they source from other ethical sources.
BMW and Tesla, for example, openly state they buy from Morocco and Australia.
And completely cobalt-free batteries are very close.

Annual supply of Cobalt is aroud 140,000 tonnes of which the DRC produces 95,000 tonnes 68% of world production. 

Batteries consume 62% or about 74,000 tonnes of cobalt.

I think you figures are a little out.

And I haven't even mentioned the the changes in chemistry and dangers of reducing the cobalt content in Li batteries and replacing it with alternatives.

All 74,000 tonnes is used in electric vehicle batteries?

No, Li Batteries not necessarily EV.  The batteries are generally the same anyway either cells (similar to AA) or pouches.

So when you challenged @BOWFER's statement that "less than 10% of cobalt mined is used in electric cars" with "Batteries consume 62% or about 74,000 tonnes of cobalt" you were making a strawman argument, because you couldn't actually dispute the statement?  

CRU forecasts cobalt demand from electric vehicles to account for more than 120,000 tonnes, or nearly 45% of the total, by 2025 compared with nearly 39,000 tonnes, or 27%, in 2020.

Jenni_D

Thanks for the informative post.

So at the moment @BOWFER said 10% but the reality is 27% (not 62%) but this will almost certainly rise.

Money_Grabber13579

Jenni_D said:

Thanks for the informative post.

So at the moment @BOWFER said 10% but the reality is 27% (not 62%) but this will almost certainly rise.

But shouldn’t the demand for platinum then fall, as electric cars won’t need catalytic converters?

I don’t know what the environmental impact of cobalt mining compared with platinum mining is, but one thing I do know is that it’s not as straightforward as saying that electric cars use cobalt, therefore they must be worse than ICE cars.

RogerPensionGuy

Hoping this thread will be s good place for my question. 

I'm probably buying a new or nearly new EV soonest.

I can see so many new EVs are finding themselves in car rental fleets, taxi/uber users and places were I'm surprised they are going.

I read private new EV sales and leases are dropping off and now big fleet operators are getting more and more.

My guess is these EV production levels are set way before the availability time zones and private sales are just dropping off and the big fleet operators are picking up the slack and probably getting these EV nice and cheap. 

Finally now my question, is there any simple route for a private buyer to get a new or nearly new EV cheap, any information or signposts most welcome please?

If I do buy one soon I'm more tempted to buy one with the longest guarantee, I think some manufacturers do a 7 year guarantee, I really don't want to have big issues especially a battery issue at year 4 or 6 of ownership. 

Cheers in advance Roger.

WellKnownSid

RogerPensionGuy said:

Hoping this thread will be s good place for my question. 

A two year old 40 page thread which appears to be dedicated to the 'evils of EV ownership' is probably a weak choice...

Finally now my question, is there any simple route for a private buyer to get a new or nearly new EV cheap, any information or signposts most welcome please?

I'm in the later stages of buying one.  As far as I can tell, it involves walking into a dealer, paying them money and walking out with the car.

Aside from the fact a used EV attracts 0% APR in Scotland, involving a delay in the funding process, it seems to be no different to buying any other type of car.

Obviously - you plan to keep the car for at least six years, so choose a model that offers at least that in terms of warranty if you are concerned.  Toyota extend their warranty every year up to ten years old if you have your car serviced with them.  Nissan will extend the warranty on an EV under 100,000 miles for £33 a month.  Zoes come with a five year warranty for MY 2019-2022.  Kia offers 7 years.  MG also 7.

RogerPensionGuy

In the past I've purchased ICE vehicles new and have always got a very chunky % discount from the RRP when outlets just need or want to shift vehicles. 

Up until now I understood they generally don't sell many new EVs at much discount, however as I think that initial private market has softened, these EVs will be available at discount from silly High RRP figures that just prop up the leasing market. 

The last car I purchased 6 years ago was brand new and 29% less than the RRP, other friends have got discounts like mine or normally just between 15/20% generally. 

An old friend was lucky enough to get a BMW 635d about 10/12 years ago at 42% of RRP because they were selling very poorly in the UK, its a lovely car and he still has it, that was and remains cheap ownership and motoring. 

So I'm looking for any information help on getting good discounts on these new EVs.

Post just about this post is very helpful, tks.

Cheers Roger.  TiA

sheramber

I think big discounts are a thing of the past in the current financial situation.

WellKnownSid

Renault ZOE - £33k new - but I've seen several on Auto Trader under a year old 5k miles around £13k this week.

Nearly new EVs are randomly advertised at deep discounts like this.  You see the majority £500-£1k below market average but suddenly you'll see one or two £5-6k below - presumably a distressed sale by the dealer with too much stock.  They go quickly, so keep your eyes peeled.

Expect new EVs with exceptional discounts and 0% APR in the New Year as manufacturers try to meet their EV sales obligations...

born_again

@Flight3287462

Tesla is already using cobalt-free LFP batteries in half of its new cars produced. 

Petroleum manufacture uses more in the refining of fuel. Cobalt is also used in the petroleum industry as a catalyst when refining crude oil. This is to clean it of its sulfur content, which is very polluting when burned and causes acid rain.


As to affordability of EV.

PX 2020 Niro 4 Hybrid 20K miles for 2021 Niro 4+EV 9K miles cost me £4K. Good deal. As they are same spec. Running costs 9p a mile less.

Grumpy_chap

sheramber said:

I think big discounts are a thing of the past in the current financial situation.

The motor industry have done really well to get us all to thinking that is the case.
There still are some discounts around (albeit from a higher starting point) and, as has ever been the case, it is down to flexibility to have the car they want to sell and being in a position to write the cheque there and then.
I know I was able to secure a discount when buying my car in June - I actually surprised myself.  The prices in September were less attractive (or the buyer) than June so it all comes down to the figures for the financial quarter.