Trouble Fitting a MagnaClean 2

Another_Level

So new radiators and the ch system is being re piped, that will eliminate a lot of sludge & dirt (maybe there is none already) .

The risk of sludge/dirt is now significantly reduced on that 6 rad system, a full size filter will not be necessary. Personally would consider an unvalved fernox omega tf1.  To save faffing around with collecting water above the boiler whilst cleaning the filter a 15mm pipe can be cunningly connected from the fernox filter drain valve outlet and terminated in a better working position or to a drain.

Not a fan of plastic filters, seen some fitted incorrectly which leaked water or early ones leaked water just by looking at them and they eventually need a service kit or replacement.

Is the central system already sludged up ? The photo of lower part of the airing cupboard prompts the question is it a sealed heating system ?

Or if open vented is it configured correctly ? to avoid air entering the system and creating sludge etc 

Happy plumbing, every installation is different so many questions 

Bendy_House

Ah, 6 rads - that's a 'compact' system :-) And as A_N says, you'll be clearly out a lot of existing sludge by removing some of these rads.

You may want to consider removing the others, too, whilst the system is drained down, taking them outside, connecting a hose to one end, and thumping the bottom/centre (in particular) of the rad while it's being flushed through. Keep an eye on what comes out, if anything.

paperclap

Thanks both!

I've just ordered the Micro 2 (and will be taking the Professional 2 back to Screwfix!).

Why the Micro 2 (over other small filters)? Purely because it also acts as a dosing pot (for inhibitor, cleaner, etc), which I'm not sure the Fernox Omega TF1 (blimey, what a name) and the like have?

Thanks Bendy_House. Will probably do that will my conservatory rad, and maybe even the bathroom towel rail 

Section62

laurencewhymark said:

Are there any requirements as to how far this earth needs to be from the boiler and/or other fittings? Can it touch them, if need be?

Regardless of whether the bond is required (there could be a long debate about that) I wouldn't install one which is so close as to be touching compression fittings.

The reason for that isn't electrical, but rather that it would impede undoing the nut, and also the risk (probably small) that tightening the clamp could slightly distort the pipe and cause the joint to start leaking.

laurencewhymark said:

I think I read somewhere this if you don’t have RCD protection, which we don’t, it’s good to have it? That said, I could have completely misread what I read!

That sounds like it was related to disconnection times.  (In layman's terms), with traditional wire fuses a fault current has to reach a sufficiently high level for a certain amount of time before the fuse wire will burn out (blow). Therefore it is very important to make sure that the path(s) fault currents might flow along are continuous and have a low enough resistance to ensure the current is sufficient to 'blow' the fuse rapidly. This rapid disconnection time is especially important because the duration someone receives a shock for has an influence on their chances of survival and the scale of injury they might suffer.

The greater sensitivity of RCDs usually means an installation design can achieve the required fast disconnection times at lower fault current levels, therefore arguably less care needs to be taken in ensuring possible fault current paths have the lowest resistance possible.

The topic is a lot more complicated than that (google 'EEBAD'), there are special situations to consider, and some people will argue that the requirements of the regulations are a minimum standard and additional precautions (that don't contravene the regulations) should be considered.  E.g. some boiler manufacturers will say that 'cross bonding' should be applied to the pipes to and from the boiler - which is what you have in that picture.


On that point, the Micro2 installation instructions state "IMPORTANT - Always follow the electrical and safety standards when installing a MagnaClean filter ensuring pipework is appropriately earth bonded either side of the filter." which implies that it is necessary to bond across the Micro2 because the inlet/outlet ports are not (sufficiently) electrically connected.

You might want to consult an electrician on the requirements for your installation, because I'm not qualified to comment.  However, personally I would follow the manufacturer's instructions unless a suitably qualified person says otherwise, because not following those instructions may invalidate your guarantee as well as being potentially unsafe.

paperclap

Section62 said:

On that point, the Micro2 installation instructions state "IMPORTANT - Always follow the electrical and safety standards when installing a MagnaClean filter ensuring pipework is appropriately earth bonded either side of the filter." which implies that it is necessary to bond across the Micro2 because the inlet/outlet ports are not (sufficiently) electrically connected.

You might want to consult an electrician on the requirements for your installation, because I'm not qualified to comment.  However, personally I would follow the manufacturer's instructions unless a suitably qualified person says otherwise, because not following those instructions may invalidate your guarantee as well as being potentially unsafe.

If I am understanding that correctly, that meaning there needs to be another bond above the Micro 2, connecting the flow and return pipes?

It appears to be the same issue I'm facing when using plastic push-fit fittings. It stops the electric continuity between the pipework, so there needs to be a "bridge" used to cross over that plastic fitting, to continue the electric continuity.

Section62

laurencewhymark said:

If I am understanding that correctly, that meaning there needs to be another bond above the Micro 2, connecting the flow and return pipes?

Kind of.

I'm not an electrician so won't give 'advice' on this point, but I would comment that to follow the manufacturer's installation instructions you would need to ensure the pipe above the Micro2 is bonded to the pipe below the Micro2.

Whether any additional bonding connection is necessary, and how best to achieve it, is open to debate. (I expect)

Personally, I would bond the flow and return pipes just above ceiling level as that would be out of sight.  Others might attach an additional clamp above the Micro2 and connect it to the one below.  Others still might not see a need to do anything.

laurencewhymark said:

It appears to be the same issue I'm facing when using plastic push-fit fittings. It stops the electric continuity between the pipework, so there needs to be a "bridge" used to cross over that plastic fitting, to continue the electric continuity.

Yes, it is essentially the same issue.  Any fitting which doesn't ensure electrical continuity in a run of copper pipe might have an adverse impact on the safety of the electrical installation, even if only done on a temporary basis.  Which is why plumbers need to have a good knowledge of electrics as well as plumbing, and why DIYers are walking into a minefield.

paperclap

Section62 said:

laurencewhymark said:

If I am understanding that correctly, that meaning there needs to be another bond above the Micro 2, connecting the flow and return pipes?

Kind of.

I'm not an electrician so won't give 'advice' on this point, but I would comment that to follow the manufacturer's installation instructions you would need to ensure the pipe above the Micro2 is bonded to the pipe below the Micro2.

Whether any additional bonding connection is necessary, and how best to achieve it, is open to debate. (I expect)

Personally, I would bond the flow and return pipes just above ceiling level as that would be out of sight.  Others might attach an additional clamp above the Micro2 and connect it to the one below.  Others still might not see a need to do anything.

laurencewhymark said:

It appears to be the same issue I'm facing when using plastic push-fit fittings. It stops the electric continuity between the pipework, so there needs to be a "bridge" used to cross over that plastic fitting, to continue the electric continuity.

Yes, it is essentially the same issue.  Any fitting which doesn't ensure electrical continuity in a run of copper pipe might have an adverse impact on the safety of the electrical installation, even if only done on a temporary basis.  Which is why plumbers need to have a good knowledge of electrics as well as plumbing, and why DIYers are walking into a minefield.

Thanks Section62.

Just been on the phone to my electrician. He said yes, it would need bonding above the filter, too.

However, I'm swaying toward replacing our consumer unit (so up to regs with RCDs). It would negate the need for this bonding above the boiler. Would negate the need for bonding along other copper pipe runs (if I do use plastic push-fit fittings in the loft). And, would just generally be safer. Quoted me £350.