1 week into home renovation / extension - should we pull the plug already?

BlueC

Looking for some advice/opinions here. After a few delays which I think are understandable in the current climate our builders started this week on our home renovation project which comprises a rear dormer extension, remodelling of the ground floor, and new roof to main house and garage. It's quite a bit of work.

Scaffolding went up and building work began this week. It has been a slow start but I have been impressed with their punctuality and general respect for us and our house as we are living here with 3 young kids. The builder himself is not on site - he just visits every day as he has other projects too - and instead we have a joiner and his lad doing the work. So far they have started to build the rear wall of the dormer and one of the dormer cheeks. It's not easy for them working around the weather and us living here so I expect this has hindered them a little so progress has been slower than I would anticipate. The joiner seems a little lacking in confidence and keeps complaining to me about the builder - vague stuff but basically I think he is not being given the direction he would like. But really I don't want to hear about this.

Anyway, on Thursday evening I noticed the timber frame work they had built for the centre window was in the wrong place. I had a chat with the joiner on Friday morning and he put it right. On Friday after they finished I then noticed that the frame work for another window was in the wrong place. They had also started to build the dormer cheek (i.e. the side wall of the dormer) and had started to construct this inside the wall of the house whereas the plans quite clearly show it is to be built off the inner leaf of the existing wall. This is because the finished internal wall of the dormer will meet an existing internal wall - i.e. there are already rooms in the roof space which the dormer is extending.

I emailed the builder on Friday evening just saying I'd like to meet him before work recommences Monday because some things aren't right. He called me this morning (Saturday) and I explained the issues. His response was that we should meet on Monday to talk about the future of the job because he's not happy with things and I'm not happy with things and basically he doesn't need the hassle of the job and a client that is "panicking over minor things so early on". ALARM BELLS! This is not the response I expected!!

He then tried to say that things such as a window in the wrong place are minor issues that can be corrected and that you can't build exactly from architects plans. My concern is exactly when would they have been corrected if I hadn't have picked up on them? Who is checking the work? If I wasn't on top of it, would they have just cracked on and built the whole thing completely wrong? I had thought as a bare minimum baseline I should expect them to firstly understand and secondly to follow the architect and engineer's drawings, and if anything wasn't clear or they needed clarification then this should be brought up with me or the architect/engineer?

His reaction to me pointing out things that I believe needed to be pointed out has made me even more worried than I was before. It's one thing them doing stuff wrong, but how do I work with a builder if their reaction to being questioned over something that is wrong is to basically say they're going to quit the job?

What do we do? I kinda feel my only option is to get them to leave site.

Section62

BlueC said:

What do we do? I kinda feel my only option is to get them to leave site.

Will that not leave you with holes in your roof and scaffolding not being used but needing to be paid for?  Just as we roll into Winter with Christmas not that far off.

How many other builders were interested in doing the job before you chose this one?  How long do you think it will take you to find another one willing to take on someone else's part done job?

The answers to those questions will determine whether booting this builder off site makes sense, or if you need to find a way to work with them to at least get the job to a state where you don't have holes in the roof and scaffolding sitting there doing nothing.


The building industry is manic at the moment.  I can imagine most traders running their own business are somewhat stressed, and possibly won't react in the most positive way if spending their Saturday morning dealing with 'problems' a client has with their work.

Maybe Monday will be sunnier?

Doozergirl

I think you need to speak to
him on Monday and allow him
to explain why things are different.  

We're working on a loft conversion right now and the architect has got one side of the roof *entirely wrong*.  His structural engineer didn't come to site, so his drawings are also entirely wrong! We've had to entirely redesign the loft.  

Even on a simple basis, if the current rafters are in a slightly different position to the drawings, you'd save money and keep
structural integrity by working to what exists rather than to the mm.

I think the best way to address is rather than complain, to ask questions.  You hired this person as an expert, so you have to trust them as that from the start.  What made you choose them? 

BlueC

Yes it will leave holes in the roof and the scaffolding is up so we'd have to figure that out too. Not ideal but could be the lesser of two evils.

Getting builders was extremely difficult but we liked this builder because he has always been very responsive. It could easily take a year to get another builder. I think we would remove everything they have done so far so at least a new builder wouldn't be taking on a half-done job.

I just expected the builder to just suggest a solution to what I thought were quite valid issues. The last thing I expected was for him to react the way he did. In all honesty, his reaction is more alarming than the problems themselves. But taken together, a builder who does things wrong, seemingly employs a joiner who can't interpret or understand plans, and then reacts with a nuclear option when picked up on them, seems like a recipe for disaster to be honest?

BlueC

Doozergirl said:

I think the best way to address is rather than complain, to ask questions.  You hired this person as an expert, so you have to trust them as that from the start.  What made you choose them? 

I think that's the problem though. I thought they would be experts - my concerns at the outset were all based around softer factors such as what order they would do things, how they would keep it mostly watertight, how they would work around us, etc - I never once envisaged that they wouldn't be able to follow plans.

It would be quite different if they had seen something on the plans that they thought, with their expertise, were wrong and then brought this to our attention. In fact, this would be reassuring, because as you say we hired them to be experts. But this is not what is happening - they simply aren't following the plans.

We chose them because they were always super-responsive and helpful, and the price was keen. Maybe these should also have been alarm bells. Who knows.

Doozergirl

To add to this, as builders, we try to filter out potential complainers immediately.  Builders also choose their clients and if you give off negative vibes, they just won't touch you. 

My friend had similar with a garden room
builder.  It pretty much collapsed after a couple of days.  I love her but I'd never choose her as a client!  They did manage to resurrect it as they knew they would get the same product for the same price because of rises, plus they'd have to wait.  

You don't want rubbish work, but you also don't want an unfinished roof.  Takes us back to the question - what made you choose your builder? 

BlueC

It feels like a bit of a trap to be called a "complainer" and imply that this is somehow our fault? The last thing I want to be doing is complaining about anything. If they were building it right I wouldn't have reason to complain?

Also to clarify, I didn't complain, I just raised a concern and really just expected it to be explained to me or dealt with.

Section62

BlueC said:

Not ideal but could be the lesser of two evils.

Come November you'll probably have a very different view on things.

One way forward would be for you to employ a Clerk of Works as a go-between.  That way you have an 'expert' overseeing the job to ensure the build is to plan and your reasonable expectations, whilst also acting as a 'filter' of criticism and possible antagonism flowing either way.

If the builder knows they will be dealing with a professional on your side, rather than being in direct communication with you, they might be willing to continue the job.

You'll need to spend additional money on a decent CoW, but if you are getting this job done cheaply to start with....

Doozergirl

BlueC said:

It feels like a bit of a trap to be called a "complainer" and imply that this is somehow our fault? The last thing I want to be doing is complaining about anything. If they were building it right I wouldn't have reason to complain?

Also to clarify, I didn't complain, I just raised a concern and really just expected it to be explained to me or dealt with.

No one has called you a complainer, but I have suggested that you ask questions than 'raise concerns' when you chose this expert yourselves. 

I'll ask for the third time because it is important - what made you choose them?   Was it such a tenuous decision that you think that they are incompetent after a week? 

BlueC

BlueC said:

We chose them because they were always super-responsive and helpful, and the price was keen. Maybe these should also have been alarm bells. Who knows.

I already responded with why we chose them.

Section62

BlueC said:

It feels like a bit of a trap to be called a "complainer" and imply that this is somehow our fault? The last thing I want to be doing is complaining about anything. If they were building it right I wouldn't have reason to complain?

Also to clarify, I didn't complain, I just raised a concern and really just expected it to be explained to me or dealt with.

I don't think you weren't being called a "complainer" and it wasn't implied you were at fault.

However, your reaction to Doozergirl's comments is possibly a good indicator that trying to directly manage a large building project yourself is going to be fraught, regardless of who the builder is.

So changing builders might not be an effective solution on its own.