Land at rear of property on orginal deeds

jbeechey92

Hi I bought a terraced house 4 years ago and on the orginal deeds is mentions a parcel of land, directly behind me is an allotment which is registered by 2 others approximately at the time of purchase of my property the allotments are all segregated into plots behind each terraced house and I believe each plot legally belongs each of the terraced houses, there’s a dirt track lane that separates the allotments from the terraces which I was informed by my solicitor everyone in the terrace owns the section of lane directly behind them uncanny, so my reall question is should I raise the dispute regarding the parcel of land ie the allotment directly behind me and inform land registery that I believe I’m the legal owner as it states a parcel of land in the orginal deeds ? 

Any information would be helpful 

thanks in advance 

Gavin83

What does the land registry records say?

The original deeds are essentially meaningless. If that plot of land has been sold since then it no longer belongs to you.

GoogleMeNow

Does your title plan include this 'land'?

You can do a map search on HM Land Registry website to find out the title number of the land in question.  Then purchase that title to find out who it is registered to.

AdrianC

When you bought the house, your solicitor went over the plan for the registered title with you, correct?

And you agreed that accorded with what you thought you were buying?

That's what you bought.
No more, no less.

jbeechey92

can see where you guys are coming from and yes land registry states my house and garden, and the land behind is registered in 2 peoples name, but on orginal deeds I was given with my property dated 1914 it mentions a parcel of land or field and the word messuage is used as well as dwelling house in discription of my property, also in the 1897 and 1898 os maps there’s no mention of allotment gardens on that map but in 1917 os maps and later it states allotment gardens, Robert Thomas crawshay owned the land around the village back in the 1800s until his death in 1940, I have all the orginal paper work regarding the lease of the land stating the fields parcel of land with a rite of a dwelling house and messuage so my thoughts are the land would have belonged to the property at some stage and the allotment society at some stage has applied for a adverse possession, on land registry they have absolute title on the land, but with the paper work I have could I dispute the land in question, the orginal owners family had the house since it was built and he stated his father tended the allotment since after the war and his brother rendered it rite up until the 90s 
with no payments given also the house was never registered with land registry when I bought the house I had to register the property with land registry during the sale, 

thanks in advance 

turnitround

There is an allotment behind my property which originally belonged to the property I now own. It was sold  in 1984 to a gentleman 3 doors from me. 

I don't own that land, nor do I have a  claim on it. I cant understand why you think the land is yours.

GoogleMeNow

jbeechey92 said:

can see where you guys are coming from and yes land registry states my house and garden, and the land behind is registered in 2 peoples name, but on orginal deeds I was given with my property dated 1914 it mentions a parcel of land or field and the word messuage is used as well as dwelling house in discription of my property, also in the 1897 and 1898 os maps there’s no mention of allotment gardens on that map but in 1917 os maps and later it states allotment gardens, Robert Thomas crawshay owned the land around the village back in the 1800s until his death in 1940, I have all the orginal paper work regarding the lease of the land stating the fields parcel of land with a rite of a dwelling house and messuage so my thoughts are the land would have belonged to the property at some stage and the allotment society at some stage has applied for a adverse possession, on land registry they have absolute title on the land, but with the paper work I have could I dispute the land in question, the orginal owners family had the house since it was built and he stated his father tended the allotment since after the war and his brother rendered it rite up until the 90s 
with no payments given also the house was never registered with land registry when I bought the house I had to register the property with land registry during the sale, 

thanks in advance 

What matters is how the current title plan shows your land.

Old original deeds are not relevant to the land as it is now, simply because ownership of boundaries and land change over time.  

You mention that the allotment society have absolute title over the land, therefore it is theirs.  Even if they applied for adverse possession, it is likely that they held the land under a possessory title for 12 years before upgrading to absolute title.  Your chance to claim it would have been during the 12 years it was held under possessory title.  It is now too late to do anything about it.  The land is not, or no longer, yours.

AdrianC

jbeechey92 said:

can see where you guys are coming from and yes land registry states my house and garden, and the land behind is registered in 2 peoples name, but on orginal deeds I was given with my property dated 1914 it mentions a parcel of land or field and the word messuage is used as well as dwelling house in discription of my property, also in the 1897 and 1898 os maps there’s no mention of allotment gardens on that map but in 1917 os maps and later it states allotment gardens, Robert Thomas crawshay owned the land around the village back in the 1800s until his death in 1940, I have all the orginal paper work regarding the lease of the land stating the fields parcel of land with a rite of a dwelling house and messuage so my thoughts are the land would have belonged to the property at some stage and the allotment society at some stage has applied for a adverse possession, on land registry they have absolute title on the land, but with the paper work I have could I dispute the land in question, the orginal owners family had the house since it was built and he stated his father tended the allotment since after the war and his brother rendered it rite up until the 90s 
with no payments given also the house was never registered with land registry when I bought the house I had to register the property with land registry during the sale, 

You have documentation that proves that that land was part of your property in 1914, through to 1940.

That was 81 years ago, 77 years before you purchased the house.

Why do you think that land can't possibly have been sold in that intervening time?

You registered it based on the plan that was with the previous owner's deeds, correct?
And you went over that plan with your solicitor, correct?
And you agreed that was what you thought you were buying, correct?

If you were to sell off the back garden now, and the house in a few years time, would the house buyer have any claim over that garden?

jbeechey92

Pretty sure no ones sold land off and I’ve asked the previous owner who’s family have had the house since year dot, and he said no recollection of any land being sold, and yes they may have had adverse possession but it would be fraudulent due to the original owners of my house maintaining the ground since the war so how can the allotment society take adverse possession when they didn’t maintain or use the plot in question, 

I just think it’s been registered illegally and because no one knew who’s land it was originally no one was contacted to dispute the claim and it’s been registered wrongly it clearly states a parcel of land on old deeds so surely if i disputed the fact and the allotment society got no deeds or paper work proving they legitimately own the land only by adverse possession then surely I should be awarded absolute title because my trump card beats theirs, 

I wouldn’t be bothered if the land was actually used but there’s about 8 foot worth of Japanese knot weed and brambles in the whole area and you can’t ever build on it so it would literally be a parking space and an extension to my garden if i was to acquire it, 

I have thought if I the orginal deeds don’t mean anything then I thought about just saying !!!!!! it and go in and clear the site and start my own adverse possession clock ⏰ ticking and put the claim in the specified time and then go for absolute title after X amount of years I’ve lived in my house now for 4 years coming up 5 and nobody has stepped foot on that parcel of land you’d need The gurkas and the lost army of Burma to cut your way through the brambles 😂 

GoogleMeNow

The allotment society could only claim adverse possession over land that wasn't registered. 

If they've now got absolute title over that land, then their claim to the land was over 12 years ago. 

In an adverse possession claim, the Land Registry would do a site visit and write to neighbouring properties or other possible interested parties to advise them of the application and to invite any objections to it.  If no-one objected to their claim, Land Registry would agree the adverse possession and register the land to them.  

It would seem that the previous owners of your property did not object to the allotment society's adverse possession claim and that, at that time, the land was not registered at Land Registry. 

theoretica

Have you paid the £3 and got a copy of the deeds for that bit of land?  Do your neighbours still use the allotments behind their houses?