Rolling gas blackouts - how ?

[Deleted User]

Dolor said:

Deleted_User said:

Who, honestly believes that when this energy crisis is over that tariffs will ever reduce again?
Because once they are used to charging such high rates -suppliers are not going to reduce them and the government has no backbone.... 

You really are a pessimist. In the unlikely event that the wholesale price was to fall back to historic norms, then so would the Ofgem Cap. The Cap was brought in to prevent the very thing that you are worried about. However, even if the wholesale price of gas remains constant, then cost per unit will likely increase year-on-year. It is well telegraphed that the Government intends to move green levies from electricity on to gas. They see an increase in gas prices as a way of gently nudging people into replacing gas boilers with heat pumps.

Don't you mean "forcing"? What about people with small/no gardens/flats etc - heat pumps need space

So when gas is priced out of reach of most individuals and some people have no choice as to reasonably priced alternatives - what's going to happen ?

brewerdave

Deleted_User said:

Dolor said:

Deleted_User said:

Who, honestly believes that when this energy crisis is over that tariffs will ever reduce again?
Because once they are used to charging such high rates -suppliers are not going to reduce them and the government has no backbone.... 

You really are a pessimist. In the unlikely event that the wholesale price was to fall back to historic norms, then so would the Ofgem Cap. The Cap was brought in to prevent the very thing that you are worried about. However, even if the wholesale price of gas remains constant, then cost per unit will likely increase year-on-year. It is well telegraphed that the Government intends to move green levies from electricity on to gas. They see an increase in gas prices as a way of gently nudging people into replacing gas boilers with heat pumps.

Don't you mean "forcing"? What about people with small/no gardens/flats etc - heat pumps need space

So when gas is priced out of reach of most individuals and some people have no choice as to reasonably priced alternatives - what's going to happen ?

1. Lots of very dubious people are going to get involved in flogging heat pump systems. 
2.  Even more people are going to get VERY cold !!

Gerry1

phillw said:

Gerry1 said:
So why has all this complicated Load Limiting and Shedding functionality been developed and built in to domestic smart meters if it will never be used?  It makes them about 10 times as expensive as they would otherwise be, and we're all footing the bills for all that expense.  Was it really all just for fun?

How did you come up with the figure that smart meters are 10 times as expensive?

The cost per household worked out at £420 in 2017 when the smart meter rollout was expected to cost £11 billion.  But in 2019 BEIS said that the latest costs were £13.480bn, which makes it £515 per household (24.7 million).  You can buy a traditional gas meter for £36 and a traditional electricity meter for £14.  Total £50, so already less than a tenth of the cost, and no doubt far cheaper in bulk.  OK, that doesn't include installation, but conventional meters far last longer and don't require failing batteries to be replaced every few years.

The key point is that the vast cost per household cannot be justified by the meagre expected savings of just £11 per year, conforming once again that a smart grid with Demand Side Response is the real driving force.  Citizens Advice are warning that better protection is required for consumers.

Liku

Deleted_User said:

Dolor said:

Deleted_User said:

Who, honestly believes that when this energy crisis is over that tariffs will ever reduce again?
Because once they are used to charging such high rates -suppliers are not going to reduce them and the government has no backbone.... 

You really are a pessimist. In the unlikely event that the wholesale price was to fall back to historic norms, then so would the Ofgem Cap. The Cap was brought in to prevent the very thing that you are worried about. However, even if the wholesale price of gas remains constant, then cost per unit will likely increase year-on-year. It is well telegraphed that the Government intends to move green levies from electricity on to gas. They see an increase in gas prices as a way of gently nudging people into replacing gas boilers with heat pumps.

Don't you mean "forcing"? What about people with small/no gardens/flats etc - heat pumps need space

So when gas is priced out of reach of most individuals and some people have no choice as to reasonably priced alternatives - what's going to happen ?

Doesn't require a big garden, mine is small and it has a ground source one. But there are air source ones too (the council here are replacing ground ones with air anyway) which don't require anywhere near as much space. There will be some properties where it may not be suitable still so if there really isn't an option but gas or a storage heater then it does seem unfair. But there are many people whose only option is a storage heater and they manage.

[Deleted User]

Deleted_User said:

Dolor said:

Deleted_User said:

Who, honestly believes that when this energy crisis is over that tariffs will ever reduce again?
Because once they are used to charging such high rates -suppliers are not going to reduce them and the government has no backbone.... 

You really are a pessimist. In the unlikely event that the wholesale price was to fall back to historic norms, then so would the Ofgem Cap. The Cap was brought in to prevent the very thing that you are worried about. However, even if the wholesale price of gas remains constant, then cost per unit will likely increase year-on-year. It is well telegraphed that the Government intends to move green levies from electricity on to gas. They see an increase in gas prices as a way of gently nudging people into replacing gas boilers with heat pumps.

Don't you mean "forcing"? What about people with small/no gardens/flats etc - heat pumps need space

So when gas is priced out of reach of most individuals and some people have no choice as to reasonably priced alternatives - what's going to happen ?

I was only quoting what is being reported in the Press.

Behavioural nudges are alternatives to using standard government interventions in markets e.g. through taxes and subsidies to influence the choices that people make in their everyday lives.

Perhaps more people need to ‘nudge’ their MPs: I have. They tend to have the next Election in mind. There does need to be a public debate about the benefits and costs of doing away with gas. Fossil fuels account for 20% of our carbon footprint. No one seems to be looking at the other 80%: for example, BJ is keen to get people flying again over half term.

QrizB

Deleted_User said:

Don't you mean "forcing"? What about people with small/no gardens/flats etc - heat pumps need space

So when gas is priced out of reach of most individuals and some people have no choice as to reasonably priced alternatives - what's going to happen ?

Here's a stock photo of an apartment block in (I think) Taiwan. See all those boxes with fans on them? They're heat pumps.

[Deleted User]

@QrizB  And they are b****y ugly. But no one has said that saving the planet is going to make it any prettier.

Novice_investor101

No point deciding to keep the gas flowing into peoples homes whilst cutting the electricity, my gas combi boiler & heating system need electricity to run! 

(Actually, i have a gas hob & gas fire in the lounge, but not everyone does). 

LippyDoodle

Are we now expecting blackouts? Best look for a windup tourch! 

pallyman

the weather is now going to be better for windfarms and the electric from Norway is now coming online so there should be no need for power cuts .