Rolling gas blackouts - how ?

Bendo

We really shouldn't have been so eager to get rid of the coal stations, it was entirely predictable. Yes get rid of them when there are other alternatives on stream but we have backed ourselves into burning a load of gas.

The likes of fiddlers ferry could have been on standby for not an i significant cost, instead its currently being stripped out whilst we burn gas instead.

Gerry1

Deleted_User said:

How would they restrict use of gas – in the event of gas shortages ?

They are unable to switch it off for periods of time (rolling outages) due to safety reasons

If suddenly cut off with no warning – when supply is switched back on again – there is a problem of potential gas leaks from appliances without working pilot lights

@Deleted_User Not so.  If you have an old boiler with a pilot light you usually have to press and hold a knob before you can light it so it's not a problem.  Similarly, cookers have a thermocouple to limit the oven flow if the flame goes out.

However, your smart meter's Shut Off Valve (SOV) can cut off your gas remotely so gas cuts can easily be implemented: the specification means that it must have "A component that can open or close (including on receipt of a Command to that effect) to Enable or Disable the flow of gas to Premises".

However, there's no risk of leaks or explosion because you have to switch off your appliances and press a button on the meter: it will only leave the supply turned on if there's no gas flow.  You can turn the gas appliances on only after it has made this check.  Utilita explain it here.

Wonder what happens if your smart meter turns your gas off when it's freezing and you're away on holiday?  If the boiler is always calling for heat then presumably the smart meter would keep refusing to turn on the supply, so you might return to find burst pipes?

Grizzlebeard

When (if) crisis management becomes essential -

Industry first.
Perhaps 3 day weeks again.

Domestic second.
Perhaps re-introduce good old twentieth century rolling "Brown outs" for Leccy. They will have to get emergency legislation through Parliament to allow the Industry to operate outside it's legally mandated minimum standards.

(Perhaps.. perhaps.. perhaps. If not this/next year we're very likely to see more of this type of stuff in the coming decade when extreme weather gets even more extreme and International Political Discord even more extremer..... )

I doubt new technological solutions will evolve as rapidly as the crisis will.

[Deleted User]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/09/19/mounting-fears-1970s-style-three-day-week-britains-energy-crunch/

coffeehound

Bendo said:

We really shouldn't have been so eager to get rid of the coal stations, it was entirely predictable. Yes get rid of them when there are other alternatives on stream but we have backed ourselves into burning a load of gas. 

The anti-nuclear lobby have a lot to answer for creating the energy gap, too

[Deleted User]

Perhaps time to invest in a few batteries?
So at least we will.be able to see 

[Deleted User]

Robin9 said:

You may have read that there is little spare capacity in the Electric Grid - made worse by the breakdown in one of the England - France links.

As above Industry gets told first by agreement - then the Grid can apply two 3% stages of voltage reductions - then the DNO will shed load in big chunks. 

Imagining that Smart meters will play a part is a fairy tale. Can you imagine the Grid ringing Eon and saying please shut down some of your Smart meters. ?

I started in the industry in the 1960's - even then we had the means of deferring off peak boosts - all at the spread of a button. I think that was a Ferranti system.

What about EVs? 

QrizB

Deleted_User said:

Perhaps time to invest in a few batteries?
So at least we will.be able to see 

and

Deleted_User said:

What about EVs? 

If you buy an EV with 230v out you can weather a blackout fairly well. There are a couple of models out there, or you can DIY.

[Deleted User]

QrizB said:

Deleted_User said:

Perhaps time to invest in a few batteries?
So at least we will.be able to see 

and

Deleted_User said:

What about EVs? 

If you buy an EV with 230v out you can weather a blackout fairly well. There are a couple of models out there, or you can DIY.

But this charge comes from the grid in the first place 

Gerry1

Robin9 said:

You may have read that there is little spare capacity in the Electric Grid - made worse by the breakdown in one of the England - France links.

As above Industry gets told first by agreement - then the Grid can apply two 3% stages of voltage reductions - then the DNO will shed load in big chunks. 

Imagining that Smart meters will play a part is a fairy tale. Can you imagine the Grid ringing Eon and saying please shut down some of your Smart meters. ?

So why has all this complicated Load Limiting and Shedding functionality been developed and built in to domestic smart meters if it will never be used?  It makes them about 10 times as expensive as they would otherwise be, and we're all footing the bills for all that expense.  Was it really all just for fun?

Robin9 said:

I started in the industry in the 1960's - even then we had the means of deferring off peak boosts - all at the spread of a button. I think that was a Ferranti system.

Not sure how you spread a button, but how did this apply to domestic Economy 10 systems and such like?  AFAIK the domestic timers would have been clockwork with no signalling system so the switching times were mechanically fixed and could not be altered remotely.  Not doubting you, but curious to know how it worked in the days before radio teleswitching.

You've rather shot yourself in the foot because the logic of your argument is that Demand Side Response (by deferring off peak boosts) was implemented way back in the 1960s with spinning disk meters and mechanical timers, but that doing the same thing today with all the clever technology in smart meters is only a fairy tale !