HX Car Park Management Ltd, Cartmel Racecourse, Cartmel

nweachus

Castle said:

A 2019 court case for a different Cumbria Car Park, (Workington), "run" by HX with the identical problem-what are the chances of that!
https://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/18003880.judge-rules-faulty-machines/

(Note the Judge's comment about the time spent trying to use the machine; it's not counted as parking time).

My parking problem started because the screen was dark and at chest height, so without my glasses I couldn't actually see anything on the screen, never mind read it. 

Fruitcake

nweachus said:

Castle said:

A 2019 court case for a different Cumbria Car Park, (Workington), "run" by HX with the identical problem-what are the chances of that!
https://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/18003880.judge-rules-faulty-machines/

(Note the Judge's comment about the time spent trying to use the machine; it's not counted as parking time).

My parking problem started because the screen was dark and at chest height, so without my glasses I couldn't actually see anything on the screen, never mind read it. 

I wouldn't mention that to a judge lest she/he think you are not fit to drive a motor vehicle. 

nweachus

Within http://web.archive.org/web/20200811163624/https://hx-pcn.com/manage-my-pcn/faqs/ which was in place when they began this nonsense, it states the following:

'We allow up to 2 digits incorrectly entered, any more than 2 digits incorrectly entered and we will make a request to the DVLA for the Registered Keepers details for non-payment as we can’t link the payment against the vehicle.'

I have a personal plate consisting of 5 digits. The information they have provided previously clearly shows my last 2 digits correctly inputted, but no incorrect digits. Surely to adhere to their statement there should 3 incorrect digits, but there are no other digits registered?

nweachus

Fruitcake said:

nweachus said:

Castle said:

A 2019 court case for a different Cumbria Car Park, (Workington), "run" by HX with the identical problem-what are the chances of that!
https://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/18003880.judge-rules-faulty-machines/

(Note the Judge's comment about the time spent trying to use the machine; it's not counted as parking time).

My parking problem started because the screen was dark and at chest height, so without my glasses I couldn't actually see anything on the screen, never mind read it. 

I wouldn't mention that to a judge lest she/he think you are not fit to drive a motor vehicle. 

Haha.. I only need them for reading, but I do remember the screen being pitch black, and they're designed so someone of 6 foot has to bend down uncomfortably to use!!!!

FrankCannon

nweachus said:

Within http://web.archive.org/web/20200811163624/https://hx-pcn.com/manage-my-pcn/faqs/ which was in place when they began this nonsense, it states the following:

'We allow up to 2 digits incorrectly entered, any more than 2 digits incorrectly entered and we will make a request to the DVLA for the Registered Keepers details for non-payment as we can’t be ar**d to link the payment against the vehicle.'

I have a personal plate consisting of 5 digits. The information they have provided previously clearly shows my last 2 digits correctly inputted, but no incorrect digits. Surely to adhere to their statement there should 3 incorrect digits, but there are no other digits registered?

I think that's corrected now.

Not_A_Hope

I am glad to see that you are up for challenging these scammers. I helped my son deal with a very similar case involving a HX Car Park in Lancaster, Gladstones Solicitors and only two digits of his registration number. In his case they had hidden the terms and condition signs so well he didn't see the requirement in what appeared to be a Pay and Display car park to enter his registration number. He put his money in for an hour and it gave him a ticket which he displayed returning half an hour later to leave the site. Even though he still had the ticket and could prove he paid as you have discovered HX rejected his appeal as the ticket 'only had the first 2 digits of his registration' (though he hadn't touched the keyboard).

I would suggest that in your case HX / Gladstones will take this all the way to the Small Claims Court in the hope that most people will cave in and pay their ever increasing costs. With the help of the Newbies thread and regulars on the forum you will be able to put together a good defence statement which probably won't stop Gladstones pretending they have a good case. If you are already at Letter Before Claim stage make sure you have sent HX a Subject Access Request (SAR) to get all the information they have on you and request a copy of partially redacted VRNs from their Payment Display Terminal record for the day in question. By analysing their record we could establish of some 53 users of the car park 6 had allegedly entered an impossible registration number. You should also ask for a redacted copy of their Landowner contract that allows them to issue PCNs. These could add useful information when it comes to writing your witness statement.

To give you some hope the judge in our case dismissed their claim because the claimant or their solicitor didn't bother to provide a contact number for the telephone hearing. So don't be too surprised if they don't 'turn up'. We were awarded £95 in costs so HX overall took a hit for being the unfair greedy scammers they are.

As the cases are so similar I would be happy to share our Defence Statement and Witness Statement for you to amend with your own specific details and exhibits. PM me if there is anything I can help with but please put up your draft versions on the forums for the Regulars to comment and improve upon.

In particular post up the date of the County Court claim you will receive. KeithP is excellent at advising when you should send the Acknowledgement of Service and the date when your Defence must be submitted. Fruitcake is excellent at dissecting Landowner contracts as most don't meet the requirements of the Companies Act.

With the support from the forum and a good witness statement to back up the defence there is a strong chance Gladstones similarly won't bother turning up. If they do and you fully understand the points of law it would take a poor or inexperienced judge with no knowledge of parking law to find in their favour.

Coupon-mad

Great support and to have you posting here, @Not_A_Hope.  Can you show us this please on this thread, so we can see this shocker.  Over 10% error rate suggests a failure of the keypad or other part of the system:

from their Payment Display Terminal record for the day in question. By analysing their record we could establish of some 53 users of the car park 6 had allegedly entered an impossible registration number. 

nweachus

I received a 'Letter Before Claim' dated 17.08.21. It was sent via email 25.08.21 and replied to via email 31.08.21. Is there anything I need to be aware of or anything else I need to do directly relating to it? As I don't fully understand the process yes I don't wish to be caught out! I took very little interest in the letter initially, as it looked like a demand for payment and the signature is just 'Gladstones Solicitors'.

Le_Kirk

The NEWBIE sticky second post explains about letter before claim (LOC) and what makes it a genuine one as opposed to a glorified debt collector letter dressed up as a LOC.

Redx

nweachus said:

I received a 'Letter Before Claim' dated 17.08.21. It was sent via email 25.08.21 and replied to via email 31.08.21. Is there anything I need to be aware of or anything else I need to do directly relating to it? As I don't fully understand the process yes I don't wish to be caught out! I took very little interest in the letter initially, as it looked like a demand for payment and the signature is just 'Gladstones Solicitors'.

A valid LBC gives 30 days notice and includes financial forms that you do not fill in when it's about parking charge notices , anything else is a debt collector letter with shorter deadlines that are irrelevant and to be ignored

The first important task is a SAR to the claimant parking company , to their DPO , to obtain all your data

The second task for an LBC I the 30 days notice hold , which then gives you time for a SAR reply