Can I be prosecuted? Speeding NIP

V19

[Deleted User] said:

V19 said:

ontheroad1970 said:

OP - Have you checked whether what you have received isn't a reminder?  Also as a lease car, you wouldn't be the registered keeper as far as DVLA is concerned, and that is what counts.  That would be the leaseholder.  Contact the Lease company and find out when they received it.

All my paperwork from the Lease Company shows the following:

Legal Owner = Lease Company
Registered Keeper = Me.

Yes, but do you have the V5C in your possesion?

No, and neither should I.

AllCarLeasing:

Do you get a V5 with a leased car?

Although your name will be down on the V5 document as the registered keeper, you will never be in receipt of the V5 logbook as this will stay with the owner.

So, who is the registered keeper of a lease car?

The private individual (personal car leasing) or the business (business car leasing) is the registered keepers of the lease car with the finance company the owner of the vehicle, at all times.

BOWFER

Car_54 said:

V19 said:

ontheroad1970 said:

OP - Have you checked whether what you have received isn't a reminder?  Also as a lease car, you wouldn't be the registered keeper as far as DVLA is concerned, and that is what counts.  That would be the leaseholder.  Contact the Lease company and find out when they received it.

All my paperwork from the Lease Company shows the following:

Legal Owner = Lease Company
Registered Keeper = Me.

Yes, but do you have the V5C in your possesion?

It's leased, so he won't have the V5 as he's only hiring the car.
You're confusing lease with PCP, anyone on PCP does get the V5.
With lease, time limits for NIPs are more relaxed as the police have to contact the lease company to get the keeper's details.
So the 21 days goes out the window, I'm note sure if there's a second time limit comes into effect (like 40 days or whatever)

facade

Take this to pepipoo dot com for advice, post this information, plus "I have the V5c with my correct address, the DOCREF date is --------"

I am the registered keeper of a lease car, which I have had since September 2020, I live at the same address DVLA has on file for the past 30 years.

10th September 2021 - I received a letter dated 8th September 2021

The letter stated the following:

29th July 2021 - 48mph in a 40mph zone caught on Local Traffic Order - Manned Equipment - West Midlands Police.

8th September 2021 - Date stated on letter

10th September 2021 - Date I received the letter in the post.

Number of days between incident (29th July 2021) to date stated on the letter (8th September 2021) - 41 days (=1 month and days / 5 weeks and 6 days).

Can you please confirm where I stand on this?

I understand that I first must respond to the NIP stating that I was the driver, but I was wondering what would happen next, are the able to prosecute considering the number of days passed since the offence?

It is very likely that this is a reminder, but it is virtually impossible to prove that you did not receive the original, their sytems are set up to not generate a letter which is obviously out of time. (It would be massively helpful if the reminders simply had "REMINDER" at the top, but they don't)

You must respond as you say,or face a 6point conviction.

Car_54

BOWFER said:

Car_54 said:

V19 said:

ontheroad1970 said:

OP - Have you checked whether what you have received isn't a reminder?  Also as a lease car, you wouldn't be the registered keeper as far as DVLA is concerned, and that is what counts.  That would be the leaseholder.  Contact the Lease company and find out when they received it.

All my paperwork from the Lease Company shows the following:

Legal Owner = Lease Company
Registered Keeper = Me.

Yes, but do you have the V5C in your possesion?

It's leased, so he won't have the V5 as he's only hiring the car.
You're confusing lease with PCP, anyone on PCP does get the V5.
With lease, time limits for NIPs are more relaxed as the police have to contact the lease company to get the keeper's details.
So the 21 days goes out the window, I'm note sure if there's a second time limit comes into effect (like 40 days or whatever)

It's 14 days, not 21. The only other limit is the 6 months after which they can't start court procedings.

BOWFER

[Deleted User] said:

BOWFER said:

[Deleted User] said:

V19 said:

ontheroad1970 said:

OP - Have you checked whether what you have received isn't a reminder?  Also as a lease car, you wouldn't be the registered keeper as far as DVLA is concerned, and that is what counts.  That would be the leaseholder.  Contact the Lease company and find out when they received it.

All my paperwork from the Lease Company shows the following:

Legal Owner = Lease Company
Registered Keeper = Me.

Yes, but do you have the V5C in your possesion?

It's leased, so he won't have the V5 as he's only hiring the car.
You're confusing lease with PCP, anyone on PCP does get the V5.
With lease, time limits for NIPs are more relaxed as the police have to contact the lease company to get the keeper's details.
So the 21 days goes out the window, I'm note sure if there's a second time limit comes into effect (like 40 days or whatever)

It's 14 days, not 21. The only other limit is the 6 months after which they can't start court procedings.

We're both wrong, really.
I tend to think 21 days to be safe, as it's actually 14 days + postage.
But that 14 days + postage goes out the window when it's a lease company, as the police are given more time to contact the lease company and get the 'hirer' details.
When it comes to a leased car, how long before you can stop sweating and relax?
I dunno.

Car_54

BOWFER said:

[Deleted User] said:

BOWFER said:

[Deleted User] said:

V19 said:

ontheroad1970 said:

OP - Have you checked whether what you have received isn't a reminder?  Also as a lease car, you wouldn't be the registered keeper as far as DVLA is concerned, and that is what counts.  That would be the leaseholder.  Contact the Lease company and find out when they received it.

All my paperwork from the Lease Company shows the following:

Legal Owner = Lease Company
Registered Keeper = Me.

Yes, but do you have the V5C in your possesion?

It's leased, so he won't have the V5 as he's only hiring the car.
You're confusing lease with PCP, anyone on PCP does get the V5.
With lease, time limits for NIPs are more relaxed as the police have to contact the lease company to get the keeper's details.
So the 21 days goes out the window, I'm note sure if there's a second time limit comes into effect (like 40 days or whatever)

It's 14 days, not 21. The only other limit is the 6 months after which they can't start court procedings.

We're both wrong, really.
I tend to think 21 days to be safe, as it's actually 14 days + postage.
But that 14 days + postage goes out the window when it's a lease company, as the police are given more time to contact the lease company and get the 'hirer' details.
When it comes to a leased car, how long before you can stop sweating and relax?
I dunno.

No we're not, really.

It's 14 days, not 14 days plus postage. The NIP must be posted to arrive at the RK's address within 14 days. [Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988, section 1].

That applies whether it's leased or not - there is no special treatment for lease companies.

There is no time pressure on the police to issue any subsequent NIP or s172 request (apart from the ultimate 6 months limit), but in practice these things are turned round pretty quickly.

TooManyPoints

This is quite straightforward. Find the V5C and check whose name and address is shown as the Registered Keeper. Nothing else matters. If it is a leased car  I would be very surprised if (a) you had the V5C and (b) you were shown as the RK. One other thing springs to mind:

...but I can confirm that I received my first offence paperwork directly to my address within the 14 day period.

 Can you?....

2nd June 2021 - 60mph in a 50mph on Motorway - Warwickshire Police.
Late June 2021 - I received a letter stating I had been over the speed limit and was offered the National Speed Awareness Course.

First of all, how did they know you were driving in order to offer you a course (unless there was anything in between which you haven't mentioned)? But in any case I would put “late June” at beyond 15th and by most people’s usual interpretation, a lot later than that. If it arrived after the 16th it did not arrive within 14 days.  

For clarification, I’m afraid this information is totally incorrect:

With lease, time limits for NIPs are more relaxed as the police have to contact the lease company to get the keeper's details.
So the 21 days goes out the window, I'm note sure if there's a second time limit comes into effect (like 40 days or whatever).

As is this: 

I tend to think 21 days to be safe, as it's actually 14 days + postage.

Best not to confuse people if you're not sure. Whatever you tend to think it is 14 calendar days. There are no exceptions or extensions for weekends or public holidays and none for delays such as postal strikes or problems (see Gidden vs Chief Constable of Humberside for details and look up the David Beckham speeding case where his NIP was served on the RK on day 16 for an example). 

The only requirement to serve a NIP is provided in s1 of the Road Traffic Offenders’ Act:

Requirement of warning etc. of prosecutions for certain offences.

(1) Subject to section 2 of this Act, [F1a person shall not be convicted of an offence to which this section applies unless]—

within fourteen days of the commission of the offence a notice of the intended prosecution specifying the nature of the alleged offence and the time and place where it is alleged to have been committed, was—

(i)  in the case of an offence under section 28 or 29 of the M1Road Traffic Act 1988 (cycling offences), served on him,

(ii) in the case of any other offence, served on him or on the person, if any, registered as the keeper of the vehicle at the time of the commission of the offence.

It is paragraph (ii) that applies. If you are not the RK (as I suspect you are not) the requirement is met provided a NIP is served on the person shown as the keeper (by the DVLA). There is no requirement for any other NIP to be served and so there cannot be any time limits on any that are served as a courtesy (which second or subsequent NIPs are). 

So best to find out who is the RK of your car. If it’s not you, only if they received a NIP beyond 14 days do you have a defence.

Advocado

V19 said:

ontheroad1970 said:

boobyd said:

Are \ have you got the V5c?
You might be the keeper but not the owner.
I wouldn't say you have been "rehabilitated" if you were caught again(you don't seem to deny it was you speeding)

There is no such thing as a registered owner, and the notices always go to the registered keeper.

This is why I am asking as I am definitely the registered keeper of the vehicle, on my first offence Warwickshire Police sent the letter to my address within the 14 day period.

Since then I have attended the course and can confirm that I am much more aware of my driving and speeds as I drive.

On this offence, which took place before I attended my Speed Awareness Course, I received the letter dated, 41 days after the offence from West Midlands Police.

Why do you need a speed awareness course to make you aware of your speed?  We've all taken driving lessons, read the highway code and completed a test.

Sign saying 40 means do 40.  50 means 50.  Faster speeds = shorter stopping distances, less reaction times and worse concequences in an accident.  etc. etc. etc.  

Did the course really teach you something you didn't know?

Car_54

Advocado said:

V19 said:

ontheroad1970 said:

boobyd said:

Are \ have you got the V5c?
You might be the keeper but not the owner.
I wouldn't say you have been "rehabilitated" if you were caught again(you don't seem to deny it was you speeding)

There is no such thing as a registered owner, and the notices always go to the registered keeper.

This is why I am asking as I am definitely the registered keeper of the vehicle, on my first offence Warwickshire Police sent the letter to my address within the 14 day period.

Since then I have attended the course and can confirm that I am much more aware of my driving and speeds as I drive.

On this offence, which took place before I attended my Speed Awareness Course, I received the letter dated, 41 days after the offence from West Midlands Police.

Why do you need a speed awareness course to make you aware of your speed?  We've all taken driving lessons, read the highway code and completed a test.

Sign saying 40 means do 40. 

No, it doesn't. It means don't do more than 40.

Maybe you'd benefit from a course .

TooManyPoints

Faster speeds = shorter longer stopping distances

FTFY