Crypto Dabble.

HCIMbtw

darren232002 said:

HCIMbtw said:

In reality I just won't be able to give the time to setting up the accounts, researching methods or practicing half the type of trading you mentioned in the first main paragraph.. let alone hanging around discords and crypto forums to much (though I can totally appreciate this type of exchange and engagement will offer some edge). 

Yeah, its not for everyone. I just think its really important to understand that you're not going to find a 100x gem via a YouTube video and if someone is suggesting that they have then its probably a shill.

HCIMbtw said:

Really what I am interested in is just setting up to tuck a portion away in BTC and ETH... and interested in platforms to use (reputable, best cost basis for ad hoc purchases) and strategies for timing buys...  in contrast to index funds/ETFs, which I just set up a monthly direct debit for because there is that little volatility (relative to crypto), I am thinking applying the same logic here probably isn't best and id be better off trying to time what are seemingly weekly crashes (worth noting i'm only really talking about money i'm willing to lose)... 

A BTC/ETH portfolio is what I always advocate to my non crypto friends. Its the lowest effort entry that I believe will outperform indices comfortably over the next decade. In terms of platforms - Coinbase, Binance and FTX are the biggest three exchanges that will not scam you. Try to avoid buying via RobinHood or Revolut etc because, last time I checked, they don't let you take possession of your BTC. Use Coinbase Pro for cheaper fees if using Coinbase. All 3 accept bank transfers, which usually have lower fees than debit card deposits. I have no idea and haven't seen any back testing of investment strategies. I'd suggest DCA over buying dips purely for psychological reasons but I don't know which one would outperform.

HCIMbtw said:

If you've any reccomended youtubers or subreddits i'd be good for checking them out, don't dabble in podcasts though

For Bitcoin - 'What Bitcoin Did' on YouTube; The petrodollar one for monetary history, and the 4 part gradually then suddenly series. For ETH - Raoul Pal - The exponential age, as well as the Raoul vs Lyn Alden on ETH (w/ Laura Shin I believe). For someone that only knows about BTC and ETH and little else but wants to begin to look in to the wider market, CoinBureau on YouTube. He doesn't shill projects, discloses his positions and provides balanced analysis. 

The above is probably the higher end of 'edutainment' content on YouTube, so it'll give you some discussion points and is beginner friendly, but its not actionable information to trade on. Just please don't become one of those people that 'invest' in something because they saw a YouTube video on it.

Thanks for the response btw, will compare the platforms a bit 

And really no need to caution about the chasing 100x gains type of mentality for new hype coins, not why i'm interested. But thanks all the same. 

To note you've the patience of a saint debating some of the other people on the forum who at just unable to shift from their own preconceptions. 

For me the whole NFT and ETH providing the system to make NFT trading possible has really changed my perception.. its really tangible, the concept of digital ownership and can see how it will be relevant in many more aspects of future commerce.. makes me want to go long 

Hansplace

bugbyte_2 said:

The problem as I see it is that no pro crypto poster - including scottex99 - actually challenges other pro cripto posters so when someone posts something like this....

Hansplace said:

Just my humble opinion...

Banks, Central banks are run by the old system ie people over the age of 50 and they want to continue controlling the market.
Crypto is for the young and wanted a change from the old system.

One thing I don't agree about central bank is how can the interest rate be determine by just a handful of people. Back in the days when interest rate goes up and down, these few central bankers will have positions in the market before announcing their votes on the interest rate. Google Nancy Polesi. She have so many positions in the market.
The old are in control and they will want to continue milking it.

Also don't like to be charge commission when I do currency exchange when travelling which is one of the things crypto is trying to sort out.

it left to others to point out the massive mis-information that is being spouted. If left unchallenged, as some on here would like, then casual readers would get the impression from posts like above that BOE is populated by old people who are intrinsically evil who control 'the market' (without explaining what 'the market' is) whilst crypto is for the young and free, and has no charges when using it

In reality Crypto appears to be easily manipulated if you have enough money - see 
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jonathanponciano/2021/06/13/musk-denies-bitcoin-pump-and-dump-and-says-tesla-will-resume-transactions-once-this-mining-goal-is-reached/?sh=6b8b50d6aa2a
and guess what? Musk is 50!

As for 'no commission' - Even if you remove the small matter of you have no idea what your holding is worth from one minute to the next there is a hefty transaction fee:
https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2021/04/21/bitcoin-transactions-are-more-expensive-than-ever/

It would be nice if a crypto fan just once called out this kind of nonsense then the rest of us wouldn't need to.

Jeezzz....did mentioned my humble opinion.

So why is the UK interest rate is at 0.1 when inflation was 3.2 last month?

Linton

Hansplace said:

bugbyte_2 said:

The problem as I see it is that no pro crypto poster - including scottex99 - actually challenges other pro cripto posters so when someone posts something like this....

Hansplace said:

Just my humble opinion...

Banks, Central banks are run by the old system ie people over the age of 50 and they want to continue controlling the market.
Crypto is for the young and wanted a change from the old system.

One thing I don't agree about central bank is how can the interest rate be determine by just a handful of people. Back in the days when interest rate goes up and down, these few central bankers will have positions in the market before announcing their votes on the interest rate. Google Nancy Polesi. She have so many positions in the market.
The old are in control and they will want to continue milking it.

Also don't like to be charge commission when I do currency exchange when travelling which is one of the things crypto is trying to sort out.

it left to others to point out the massive mis-information that is being spouted. If left unchallenged, as some on here would like, then casual readers would get the impression from posts like above that BOE is populated by old people who are intrinsically evil who control 'the market' (without explaining what 'the market' is) whilst crypto is for the young and free, and has no charges when using it

In reality Crypto appears to be easily manipulated if you have enough money - see 
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jonathanponciano/2021/06/13/musk-denies-bitcoin-pump-and-dump-and-says-tesla-will-resume-transactions-once-this-mining-goal-is-reached/?sh=6b8b50d6aa2a
and guess what? Musk is 50!

As for 'no commission' - Even if you remove the small matter of you have no idea what your holding is worth from one minute to the next there is a hefty transaction fee:
https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2021/04/21/bitcoin-transactions-are-more-expensive-than-ever/

It would be nice if a crypto fan just once called out this kind of nonsense then the rest of us wouldn't need to.

Jeezzz....did mentioned my humble opinion.

So why is the UK interest rate is at 0.1 when inflation was 3.2 last month?

Because people want to buy Gilts (which is the mechanism by which money is lent to the Government) and are prepared to accept approx 0% interest.  The Government is more than happy to borrow at approx 0% interest since inflation will substantially reduce the amount of money in real terms they will have to pay back.    Note government income from tax is mostly inflation linked - as prices and wages go up tax goes up also as it is a %.

Why is gilt interest so low?  There are a large number of institutions such as pension and insurance companies that must buy gilts.  In fact any UK company/organisation that wants to hold large amounts of cash has little choice but to buy gilts as a safe prioxy - they can hardly go to a high street bank and deposit £100M;.  Its' much easier, quicker and cheaper to simply buy and sell gilts..  Secondly the Bank of England has been buying gilts under Quantitative Easing and taking them out of the market so there are not enough to go round.   The BoE is now the largest holder of gilts.  So the majority of our government debt that people get so excited about is actually owed to us in the form of the BoE and our insurance and pension companies.

Now if the government can get away with paying 0% interest on its borrowings why should other people like say a large bank pay a lot more to borrow?  Why should they pay their customers 5% interest when they can get the money they need for something closer to the gilt rate from the market.

So interest rates are not set by some evil cabal but rather by the natural operation of the worlds bond markets.  Borrowing and lending takes place globally.  The UK government has only limited control over rates.

At the moment there is no causal link between interest rates and higher inflation.  Inflation has risen because there is a shortage of goods thanks to the global supply problems.  If we dont pay more and other people do who gets the goods?  But in other circumstances there can be a link.

Dandytf

howtocrypto said:

If anyone is interested in learning a bit more about the crypto space then please have a gander at my new website: www.howtocryptouk.tips it's new so is still a work in progress, but i've got a load of simplified crypto advice, tips, terms and "How to" guides so that people who are new to the space can start learning the basics in 1 place. I hope it helps someone! 

thanks, please make this url.

Malkytheheed

Crypto threads shouldn't be in "savings and investments". Isn't there a gambling forum?

Scottex99

Malkytheheed said:

Crypto threads shouldn't be in "savings and investments". Isn't there a gambling forum?

According to who, you?

It's cool to buy random individual stocks that swing 50%+ in either direction though, that's legit investing?

Don't believe in crypto? Don't read the threads, not difficult. There's a long running thread on here called "a Speculative Punt" are you posting the same on there?

Ofc its extremely volatile and nascent, that's been covered a million times. But for me I'm investing in the future of money and an industry that has a market cap of $2tn already. 

You can also easily make 10% APY on your coins, so that's the saving part sorted, obviously counterparty risk has to make a feature here in your decision on where to park capital.

Pretty boring people just showing up and writing it off with zero research

Scottex99

howtocrypto said:

If anyone is interested in learning a bit more about the crypto space then please have a gander at my new website: www.howtocryptouk.tips it's new so is still a work in progress, but i've got a load of simplified crypto advice, tips, terms and "How to" guides so that people who are new to the space can start learning the basics in 1 place. I hope it helps someone! 

Had a brief scan over some topics, looks pretty good. Would definitely help out someone new to the space, for sure.

Good work

Linton

Scottex99 said:

Malkytheheed said:

Crypto threads shouldn't be in "savings and investments". Isn't there a gambling forum?

According to who, you?

It's cool to buy random individual stocks that swing 50%+ in either direction though, that's legit investing?

Don't believe in crypto? Don't read the threads, not difficult. There's a long running thread on here called "a Speculative Punt" are you posting the same on there?

Ofc its extremely volatile and nascent, that's been covered a million times. But for me I'm investing in the future of money and an industry that has a market cap of $2tn already. 

You can also easily make 10% APY on your coins, so that's the saving part sorted, obviously counterparty risk has to make a feature here in your decision on where to park capital.

Pretty boring people just showing up and writing it off with zero research

I agree with you that there is little difference between "Speculative Punts" and crypto.  Most investors with serious money dont go in for Speculative Punts except perhaps for a small play with money that doesnt really matter.  Coolness is not a asensible criterion for something as important to one's future as manging one's finances.

Crypto does not sort the savings part.  Let's compare it with shares.

Putting SPs aside consider Tesco shares.  Tesco makes a profit and distributes between a 1/3 and a 1/2 of it in dividends.  Its yield (dividends/price) is about 4%.  So it's a bit like a 4% bank account except there is a real but small risk that it will go bust and you will lose your capital.  So 4% seems within the bounds of reasonableness which implies the price is reasonable

But then you have the >50% of profits that Tesco doesnt distribute in dividends.  What does it do with it? Hopefully it spends the money on making the company bigger and better so that in future years it will make even more profit and so be able to increase its dividends. Increased profits and increased dividends will justify an increase in the value of the shares.

Both crypto and SPs are very different to Tesco.  Neither generate profits nor pay an inceom. Their price is purely justified by what someone else is prepared to pay for them - sometimes referred to as "the bigger fool" theory.  With both there is a dream.  For SPs it's that the company will strike gold and either sell out for £Bs or become a major player with profits and dividends.  For crypto it's that the technology will become the standard way currency is organised throughout the world and that your crypto of choice will be that currency. With both the chances are slim. especially the latter for crypto..  However whilst there are increasing numbers of people who share the dream the "bigger fool" process will continue.

The downside to both SPs and Coins is that anything that happens to dent confidence in The Dream will cause a major fall in the price.  At some stage another SP or coin will grab the market, or perhaps the whole sector in which those investments operate will disappear from the headlines and become boring.  Without the enthusiastic buyers prices will collapse.

So perhaps you can make 10%/year on your crypto this year but that is not guaranteed.  Next year who knows.  It is very misleading to say that making 10% is easy.

Malthusian

The difference between the "speculative punts" thread and the crypto threads is:

1) Posts in the speculative punts thread are along the lines of "I think Twome Ninnashed Pharma could deliver massive profits if their wonderdrug gets approved." Not "TNP is the future of investing and all FTSE 350 companies are worthless and everyone who invests in them is going to be poor".

2) If TNP does go to the moon and make their investors rich, it will be because their wonderdrug turned out to be brilliant and created huge amounts of value. Not from other people losing money. Punters' money in == punters' money out.

3) People in the speculative punts thread don't claim on a regular basis that the obscure small companies they're invested in will deliver "risk free" returns of "7-8% APY" (exact quote from this thread), and when challenged on this statement, blather "contango arbitrage woo woo, do your own research bro". It's even called "speculative punts".

Frequentlyhere

Linton said:

Scottex99 said:

Malkytheheed said:

Crypto threads shouldn't be in "savings and investments". Isn't there a gambling forum?

According to who, you?

It's cool to buy random individual stocks that swing 50%+ in either direction though, that's legit investing?

Don't believe in crypto? Don't read the threads, not difficult. There's a long running thread on here called "a Speculative Punt" are you posting the same on there?

Ofc its extremely volatile and nascent, that's been covered a million times. But for me I'm investing in the future of money and an industry that has a market cap of $2tn already. 

You can also easily make 10% APY on your coins, so that's the saving part sorted, obviously counterparty risk has to make a feature here in your decision on where to park capital.

Pretty boring people just showing up and writing it off with zero research

So perhaps you can make 10%/year on your crypto this year but that is not guaranteed.  Next year who knows.  It is very misleading to say that making 10% is easy.

Spot on. I recall many people around here making 'easy' 10%-12% returns on their money with various Peer to Peer firms a few years back. Easy until the money ran out!

Like this too, some people got in and out early and did very well. Nothing wrong with that if you understand the risks. I wouldn't term it 'easy' though.