Contactless limit to rise to £100.

mellyflewus

my fear is that eventually bank cards will be abolished and i will have to use my phone to pay for things.

i object to that for two reasons - i don't like giving out my data and i don't like touching dirty things.

yes i'm a hoverer and i've been using hand sanitiser after tapping for years - i can't tell you how many chipped cards i've destroyed or how many people i annoy on public transport while i rummage around for my gel.

i would do the same if i had to use my phone and then i would break my speaker or microphone; as i have done after cleaning after dropping.

(to be clear i make no judgement of people who don't do the same as me, not least because what i do is the the far end of the bell curve.)

edited to add that i am not asking for advice nor do i need it.

Daliah

mellyflewus said:

i object to that for two reasons - i don't like giving out my data and i don't like touching dirty things.

Why do you believe that paying with your phone will share more of your data than is shared every time you are paying with your card? What dirty things do you expect to have to touch?

If you pay with your phone, there are two things you have to do differently from paying by card:

1. you touch your phone instead of your card 
2. there are no [dirty] key pads to touch to enter your PIN, which you'd have to do when paying by card if the amount is above the contactless limit
   

In addition,

• if you lose your phone, nobody can make any payments from your account
• all you have to carry is your phone, which you'd do for plenty of other purposes, too (tickets, diary, phone calls, messages, directions, reminders, step counter, shopping list, camera, alarm etc etc etc). No need to carry a card.
• banks don't need to waste money and resources on producing and administering cards

I appreciate that you need enough battery charge on your phone but you'd want to have that anyway, and a back-up battery pack is a good idea. There's also the possibility of technology failure, although this is extremely rare. I have not paid with a physical card for the last five years and never had any technology issues paying by phone / watch.

mellyflewus

Daliah said:

Why do you believe that paying with your phone will share more of your data than is shared every time you are paying with your card? What dirty things do you expect to have to touch?

If you pay with your phone, there are two things you have to do differently from paying by card:

1. you touch your phone instead of your card 
2. there are no [dirty] key pads to touch to enter your PIN, which you'd have to do when paying by card if the amount is above the contactless limit
   

In addition,

• if you lose your phone, nobody can make any payments from your account
• all you have to carry is your phone, which you'd do for plenty of other purposes, too (tickets, diary, phone calls, messages, directions, reminders, step counter, shopping list, camera, alarm etc etc etc). No need to carry a card.
• banks don't need to waste money and resources on producing and administering cards

I appreciate that you need enough battery charge on your phone but you'd want to have that anyway, and a back-up battery pack is a good idea. There's also the possibility of technology failure, although this is extremely rare. I have not paid with a physical card for the last five years and never had any technology issues paying by phone / watch.

edited to add that i didn't ask for advice nor do i need it but i engaged with this mse warrior out of politness even though they missed the point.

don't you have to give google or apple or samsung card and personal details if you use their 'pay' features/ wallets?

i've seen in this thead that people talk about a third party called curve but don't you have to give the same details to them?

is that not data, and more to the point, sensitive data?

my concern here is with big data not what an opportunistic thief could do.

i'm happy to learn something new if that is not the case because obviously i've never tried to sign up for such schemes.

touch my phone onto what - the card reader?

that is the dirty thing that i expect to have to touch - something that looks clean but isn't.

that is what i don't like to do with either my bank card in the shop or my travel pass on public transport (because i wouldn't use my card for public transport due to big data issues unless i'd lost my travel pass and couldn't get cash).

so i wouldn't want to do it with my phone either.

i would be interested to know if 'hovering' is easier with a phone than a card or travel pass.

so you see my problems are limiting big data breaches and touching things that i consider dirty - a difficult matrix to solve.

Daliah

If you are worried about your data being known by "big data", you need to completely withdraw from anything "card", including any loyalty cards, as well as anything "bank" and anything "phone". I am sure you will agree this is not practical.

Paying by phone only involves touching your phone. No physical contact with a card reader is required (as would be if you made a non-contactless payment with your card). Holding the phone in close proximity to the reader is perfectly sufficient. Hovering, as you call it, is easier with a phone as you are not limited by the contactless limit. Of course this may not matter to you if you never spend more than the contactless limit. You'd still benefit from not having to carry any card.

mellyflewus

Daliah said:

If you are worried about your data being known by "bid data", you need to completely withdraw from anything "card", including any loyalty cards, as well as anything "bank" and anything "phone". I am sure you will agree this is not practical.

Paying by phone only involves touching your phone. No physical contact with a card reader is required (as would be if you made a non-contactless payment with your card). Holding the phone in close proximity to the reader is perfectly sufficient. Hovering, as you call it, is easier with a phone as you are not limited by the contactless limit. Of course this may not matter to you if you never spend more than the contactless limit. You'd still benefit from not having to carry any card.

edited to add that i didn't ask for advice nor do i need it but i engaged with this mse warrior out of politness even though they missed the point.

by big data i mean data sharing between data suckers.

i silo and compartmentalise the data that i give to data suckers as much as i can.

that is because my concern isn't about giving data it's about data being lost to breaches or used illegally.

therefore my phone, computer operating system, banking etc are with separate entities.

that sort of compartmentalisation is useless if i willingly give them cross-referencable data.

i've understood that phone payment systems have a higher limit than bank cards but how is the data transferred from the phone to the reader?

isn't it the same nearfield communication as used by bank cards and travel passes?

when i use my bank card sometimes i have to touch it onto the reader and sometimes i can hover a centimetre or two away - that is what i mean by hover.

if i used my phone to pay would i sometimes have to touch it directly to the reader, always touch it to the reader like with my travel pass or never touch it to the reader?

northwalesd

Daliah said:

• all you have to carry is your phone, which you'd do for plenty of other purposes, too (tickets, diary, phone calls, messages, directions, reminders, step counter, shopping list, camera, alarm etc etc etc). No need to carry a card.
  

There's also the possibility of technology failure, although this is extremely rare. I have not paid with a physical card for the last five years and never had any technology issues paying by phone / watch.

Having started using Google Pay again within the last couple of months (I did use it several years ago, thought it wasn't for me but decided to give it another go) I've already had one payment of several hundred pounds declined. Thankfully I had my wallet, and just used the underlying card with PIN to pay. So I currently don't feel the technology is robust/reliable enough to not carry at least one 'backup' card with me.

I still don't know why the payment was declined, and Google Pay gave no indication it was, it just showed as declined when the payment voucher spat out of the terminal.

In the section on using their cards with Google Pay, my main bank at least (Llloyds) do warn that it isn't infallible and to always carry a card.

Keeping it on topic, I've no issue with the limit raise, but do understand others concerns.

Daliah

mellyflewus said:

i've understood that phone payment systems have a higher limit than bank cards but how is the data transferred from the phone to the reader?

It happens by magic 😂

Yes, NFC. It does not require physical contact of the phone and the reader.

mellyflewus said:

by big data i mean data sharing between data suckers.

i silo and compartmentalise the data that i give to data suckers as much as i can.

that is because my concern isn't about giving data it's about data being lost to breaches or used illegally.

therefore my phone, computer operating system, banking etc are with separate entities.

that sort of compartmentalisation is useless if i willingly give them cross-referencable data.

Your aversion against "data suckers" and "big data" seems to be a belief system that you are not willing to give up, so it's best if I give up trying to convince you that using your phone to pay, you are no more likely to become any sort of victim of data breach than you are already. You are also not prepared to see any benefits, so no point in me repeating any of them. Over and out.

mellyflewus

Daliah said:

mellyflewus said:

i've understood that phone payment systems have a higher limit than bank cards but how is the data transferred from the phone to the reader?

It happens by magic 😂

Yes, NFC. It does not require physical contact of the phone and the reader.

mellyflewus said:

by big data i mean data sharing between data suckers.

i silo and compartmentalise the data that i give to data suckers as much as i can.

that is because my concern isn't about giving data it's about data being lost to breaches or used illegally.

therefore my phone, computer operating system, banking etc are with separate entities.

that sort of compartmentalisation is useless if i willingly give them cross-referencable data.

Your aversion against "data suckers" and "big data" seems to be a belief system that you are not willing to give up, so it's best if I give up trying to convince you that using your phone to pay, you are no more likely to become any sort of victim of data breach than you are already. You are also not prepared to see any benefits, so no point in me repeating any of them. Over and out.

edited to add that i didn't ask for advice nor do i need it but i engaged with this mse warrior out of politness even though they missed the point; and why be rude about nfc when i mentioned it first?

you did give me info on phones and contact readers that i didn't know, and i thank you, but not being prepared to do a thing is not the same as not understanding its benefits.

edited to add what i should have said:

i asked no questions in my original post and was engaging with the you out of politeness but you used that up when you thanked somone who was more rude to me than you.

xlnc99

So i tried using my google pay at asda on my phone. It came to 95 pound and it was declined. Used the card and chip and pin no problem

Went back to asda and bought a sandwich and used it for 5 pound, no problem

so it seems there is a limit on how much you can use your phone for payments

Daliah

xlnc99 said:

So i tried using my google pay at asda on my phone. It came to 95 pound and it was declined. Used the card and chip and pin no problem

Went back to asda and bought a sandwich and used it for 5 pound, no problem

so it seems there is a limit on how much you can use your phone for payments

That limit has been set by ASDA. For a very long time, they didn't accept more than the contactless limit on ApplePay, even though other shops accepted payments for much higher amounts.The increase to £100 for contactless doesn't come into effect until the 15th, though.