My old Spinningfield case. Link included kindly by RedX .Judge ordered preliminary phone hearing

Coupon-mad

Yes when you do the WS send it by email.

Show us first for comments even if you then email that in the morning (makes no difference).  Do not apologise for the lateness, not unless this is raised as an issue by the Judge on the day, which is when you point out the other side's failure (we hope) to comply with point 8.  Two wrongs don't make a right but no disadvantage caused by you, as they saw the appeal statement and knew all the circumstances, way back in 2019.

No need to show us the drop hands offer, it is just an email to the solicitors only and just as I explained, short and sweet. 

firstly is it ok to email rather than post this to Gladstones and if l understand correctly not copy in the court ? 

Yes.

 Do l use the words 'drop hands'?

Yes.  It is not slang.

Or do l use the words more or less in your paragraph 8 above 'if your client discontinues' etc.

Both phrases.  No template, it is what I said.  Two or three sentences!  Obviously the claim number in the subject line and both parties' names.

Head it with 'Without  Prejudice, Save as to Costs'.

su51_2

What do you think? Please feel free to pull apart. I have sent the drop hands to gladstones yesterday exactly as you said and this is my proposed email to be sent at 3.45 tomo to court and solics(sorry l said 29th its actually tomo) obv. needs all details adding at top court no. etc etc .
Still working on defence nearly finished,will post on here first


 In compliance with Order no.8 on my form N158, I wish to submit to the Court and the Claimant, my ‘calculations of the sums in issue’ but firstly

'attempt to narrow the issues’ as follows:

This area of ‘Spinningfields’ is a known entrapment zone in the local Manchester court in particular,

As stated in my Defence I stopped to ask directions as l was there to carry out work as an authorised contractor and there were no prominent signs that could be read without stopping and exiting the vehicle and that directed me to my intended work premises.

l did not ‘park’ there, as in l did not turn off my engine or lock my vehicle in the few minutes l was stopped there so l calculate l owe no parking charge.

Secondly, as my Defence covered, the added £60 is double recovery by Gladstones who have already added the capped £50 legal fees to the small claim and can't have it twice, especially as the only letter l received after my online appeal was rejected, was a Letter Before Claim. No Parking Charge Notice was ever addressed to me throughout or to date and no offer of a discount, no photos, no pictures of the sign, nothing that could be construed as debt recovery work or that complied with the pre-action protocol to narrow the issues were sent to me in the interim prior to the Letter Before Claim.

In summary there was no breach of agreed terms and as such no parking charge owed and no justification for the abuse of adding sums on top. 

As l am not in agreement that l owe any of the sums claimed by the Claimant l have therefore sent the Claimants solicitors a ‘Drop Hands’ offer which has been rejected 

This line is to you Coupon Mad btw 
Thank you so much once again

Coupon-mad said:

Yes when you do the WS send it by email.

Show us first for comments even if you then email that in the morning (makes no difference).  Do not apologise for the lateness, not unless this is raised as an issue by the Judge on the day, which is when you point out the other side's failure (we hope) to comply with point 8.  Two wrongs don't make a right but no disadvantage caused by you, as they saw the appeal statement and knew all the circumstances, way back in 2019.

No need to show us the drop hands offer, it is just an email to the solicitors only and just as I explained, short and sweet. 

firstly is it ok to email rather than post this to Gladstones and if l understand correctly not copy in the court ? 

Yes.

 Do l use the words 'drop hands'?

Yes.  It is not slang.

Or do l use the words more or less in your paragraph 8 above 'if your client discontinues' etc.

Both phrases.  No template, it is what I said.  Two or three sentences!  Obviously the claim number in the subject line and both parties' names.

Head it with 'Without  Prejudice, Save as to Costs'.

Redx

if this is a WS, add the Wilkinson case and Recorder Cohen judgment from a coupon mad post as substance in the doiuble recovery section and as Exhibits ( the WS stage requires a statement and also Exhibits to back up the defence and WS )

Exhibits should be referenced using initials and a number , such as ABC/001 , ABC/002 etc , where ABC is the defendants initials, all Exhibits need numbering , even the summary costs assessment etc

su51_2

Redx said:

if this is a WS, add the Wilkinson case and Recorder Cohen judgment from a coupon mad post as substance in the doiuble recovery section and as Exhibits ( the WS stage requires a statement and also Exhibits to back up the defence and WS )

Exhibits should be referenced using initials and a number , such as ABC/001 , ABC/002 etc , where ABC is the defendants initials, all Exhibits need numbering , even the summary costs assessment etc

No Redx,  this is my reply/complying to order no.8 on my notice of allocation that Coupon Mad suggested l should reply to at 11th hour by email. I would link you to his posts referring to this between me and Coupon Mad but as you're probably aware by now my technical skills we would be here all night whilst l attempt to do so please could l ask you to read posts on page 3 starting with mine on 24th Sept at 6.31pm and all will be explained (sorry again but trust me will be quicker than me trying link to the relevant bits),  thank you so much once again .  l am completing the WS tomo (or my husband will obv.) and will bear in mind what you said about the indexing and case reference for the double recovery. l will of course post it on here for you and others to look over before sending.  Thank you for all your time and trouble,

Coupon-mad

Her posts!

OK so now the WS but don't make it too long, just what I said really as you don't want to annoy the Judge with War and Peace, given it's being filed snd servied late.

su51_2

Coupon-mad said:

Her posts!

OK so now the WS but don't make it too long, just what I said really as you don't want to annoy the Judge with War and Peace, given it's being filed snd servied late.

Hi,  sorry penny's just dropped;l wondered what you meant about my posts then haha. sorry l did think you might be a 'her' rather than a 'him' but just put 'his' as a generic term for 'man' kind . Got me thinking actually why people do that .i might start defaulting to saying  ' hers' or 'she' when in doubt  and start a revolution  . but maybe not,  l'm struggling enough with this  lol: )

I take it the body of my email to send at 3.45 today to both parties in answer to Order no. 8 is ok then ?

 If so l will add in the court no. etc etc and have it ready as a draft to send this afternoon.  

Just one slight technicality is they haven't responded to my Hands Drop email yet , just had a standard acknowledgement response.  l drafted this email on presumption they will have rejected it by time l send it 

.So l may have to change the last paragraph to say l have offered them a Hands Drop in interests of settling etc etc. (if they don't reject it before 3.45 pm today). 

 Or do l just not mention it and let judge find out afterwards( if they haven't rejected it by this afternoon )?

 On that subject l am a tad confused actually, didn't you say the court won't know about HD till after the case?  if l put that paragraph they will though wont they,  so it's ok for judge to know l've made that offer l presume?  l think that was all before you picked up on this 'no.8' order though.  l don't understand why l do it 'Without Prejudice' etc so the judge cant see it but then go and tell them about it (sorry again just confused not disputing any of your advice).  

 Or - do l only mention the Drop Hands in my email this afternoon if they reject it  before then.

Do l only need to put the case reference mentioned by Red x with the point about double charging in the actual WS and not in this 3.45 email where l mention they are double charging.

 Apart from all above  l'm ready to send this email this p.m. then l'll post proposed WS on here. 

  Thank You..... ad infinitum once again.

95Rollers

It doesn't hurt to have your WS - or at least a rough draft of it ready to go with all your collated exhibits. I currently have mine saved as a live document/ WIP which I'm adding and editing as I go so if the time comes it will be ready at short notice if a narrow deadline is dumped on me.  I would do this as they might not even acknowledge your offer as that would be a "loss" to them and they like to make people stew so if they do decide to go with your offer its likely they'll make either pull out at the 11th hour making no engagements with you or the court or send a letter of discontinuance nearer the time of a case (possibly after WS submission as they'll want to see your hand and see if they can realistically beat it).

su51_2

Thank you 95Rollers I am going to complete the WS this afternoon and then post on here for advice before posting .  Yes they do like to play the game don't they,l wish l'd not had it moved to my local court now as l believe Manchester really see through them but l didn't think it would be a telephone hearing l thought maybe all this Covid stuff would've been sorted and back to hearings in person by now.

Coupon-mad

Tell the court that the Claimant failed to respond to your 'drop hands offer' and has made no attempt to narrow the issues or negotiate, so they have failed to comply with paragraph 8 of the Order which you note was mandatory.

If you can, send that email to the court and Claimant's solicitors at 3.55pm if you dare.  Give them NO TIME TO ADDRESS THEIR BREACH.

su51_2

Coupon-mad said:

Tell the court that the Claimant failed to respond to your 'drop hands offer' and has made no attempt to narrow tge issues ir negotiate, so they have failed to comply with paragraph 8 of the Order which you note was mandatory.

If you can, send that email to the court and Claimant's solicitors at 3.55pm if you dare.  Give them NO TIME TO ADDRESS THEIR BREACH.

Ok l will go over now and amend it. l have a draft ready to go  .  its not far off l've already said that l've had no response to date nor any other attempt to liaise with me or negotiate etc but l will also insert the bit about  'which l note was mandatory' 
Oh and l've done it to the court with G solics. as CC (general enquiry email  address) and a BCC to the individual at Gs who seems to have been allocated the case.  Is that ok or should l send them an individual email ?
l have done another draft just to the court separately with my husband's phone number for the hearing and that he wishes  his wife/yours truly  (it came from him obv.) can act as his lay representative but that he understands he will still have be present throughout.