Nightmare tenant - advice please!!

Windsorcastle

I have said upthread, simply take heart that the tenants are renting and therefore more likely to consider this a transient arrangement and move on sooner than owner-occupier.  

Are the other residents pleased that you are drawing them into a dispute that will have to be declared at sale time?

To clarify - it is the LL who has asked the other freeholders for our advice as to how he can evict the tenants.  He wants them out, and he wants to sell the property as he is financial difficulties himself. There is no dispute at this time which would need to be declared in the event of any of us wanting to sell our property.  The LL is simply fairly clueless as to how to handle this.  (I don't think it's fair to refer to 'nosy neighbours' - residents and their children are being adversely affected by the effects of the weed smoking, and are entitled to feel disgruntled).

I'm not proposing whistle-blowing on the other LLs who are unlicenced - that's not my problem or business and on their own heads be it if they get caught as I know it's potentially a 30K fine or prosecution in this LA.  I am solely concerned with helping the LL in question evict his problematic tenants.  There is no reason to rock the boat for the other freeholders.  

Thanks to @Lover_of_Lycra, I can now advise the LL that he must first apply for a licence from the Council before he can even think about issuing a S21.  I will also advise that he takes proper legal advice or contacts the NRLA to ensure he is following due process.  

I assure you that I have no interest in what anyone gets up to in the privacy of their own home, and would rather not be involved in the saga at all.  But we have all been drawn into it by the LL, and I am seeking to help him find a resolution that will restore peace of mind to everyone affected.  I do appreciate the valid points you have made on the thread.  

swingaloo2

The  more I read on this thread the more I am feeling that the problem tenant is not really the problem. He seems to have several nosey 'do-gooder' neighbours prying into his business and the thought that someone feels it's acceptable to encourage a landlord to speak to the tenants employers is staggering. 

One tenant reporting him for changing the locks which for anyone renting is a sensible and legal thing to do and then the landlord questioning him about having done so. Im beginning to feel sorry for the tenant.

Perhaps he would be less anti social if he were left alone. It looks as though the landlord and those advising him know very little about the rules and regulations which go with letting out a property so it's likely that the tenant will start to dig his heels in even more if he continues to be hassled and he could well be there for years. 

Windsorcastle

TBH if the tenant was just more considerate about not smoking weed continuously and daily within the property, and even if he smoked outside and away from the building, no one would be getting upset with him and everyone could get on with their lives.  So he has brought the negative attention upon himself in the first place.

I have only actually encountered him a few times over the last few months and I have always been courteous to him, so I also agree that is everyone was more courteous to neighbours, there might be more considerate behaviour across the board.  Unfortunately, now that the police have been involved, etc, I think it's difficult to establish cordial relations between all parties.

However, I am very grateful to everyone who has made helpful and constructive suggestions on the thread and I will advise the LL to do the following:

• to ensure that he has fulfilled all of his LL obligations, in terms of safety certificates, landlord licence, deposit protection, etc
• to take proper legal advice urgently from a solicitor and/or the NRLA so that he understands the correct process he should be following, and to follow every step scrupulously
• to contact Landlord Action, if he feels unable to handle the process himself

I do feel the other residents would calm down considerably if they knew the situation was being addressed and will be resolved in due course, albeit not a quick fix.

If I was the LL I would actually be doing all I could to remain on good terms with the tenants, and would even agree not to pursue them for rent arrears if they agree to leave at the end of the fixed-term, but I have a feeling this LL would flatly reject that suggestion.  And consequently will no doubt lose a hell of a lot more rental income in the lengthy process ahead.

  

steampowered

I do not understand why you think it is any of your business to be "advising" the landlord.

swingaloo2

'I can now advise the landlord that he must first apply to the council'.

Should he not be doing all this himself if he really does want th tenants out. All the information is available online

 Dont you think its quite worrying that this landlord actually needs the advice of others. He is clearly clueless as to his responsibilities to his tenants, he is equally clueless as to his tenants rights.

Anyone who rents out a property without knowing what they are doing cares nothing for the tenants and as such they cut corners and are only interested in getting rent. Then when the rent fails to materialise they want the tenant out. Cowboy landlords dont care as long as the money comes in.

If he does not understand how to serve notice then I very much doubt the rest if his ducks are in a row for eveivting tenants.
You can bet that with the interference that they have had the tenants will now probably have a much better idea of what it takes to get them out than the landlord does and that is not going to mean a fast resolution to your problems.

Waunakee

Windsorcastle said

  I have indeed been a LL previously but I was very lucky with my tenants and never had to deal with such serious issues myself.  Although I also was very careful to carry out credit checks and take up employment references, which probably helped.  

If this is the case I’m well and truly flabbergasted on your lack of understanding of landlord responsibilities and tenants rights.

Grumpy_chap

If the LL of the flat with the problem tenant is really clueless, why is the OP getting involved in advising the LL what to do?  I know the OP is trying to be helpful but, by their own admission, the OP is not fully experienced in all-things LL and this is a complicated situation.  Especially as the LL is absentee (out of the country).

Rather than get drawn into this and burn time and mental energy trying to assist the LL, the OP might be better to simply advise the LL that they need professional advice on the correct process etc and the LL should engage a Lettings Agent to manage the property.

elsien

Windsorcastle said:

HampshireH said:

Changing of the locks is completely irrelevant. The landlord should not just walk in with their key anyway.

Presumably the tenants told him they had changed the locks and he didn't just try and get in one day and found out .

I'm surprised to hear you have been a landlord with little/no knowledge of how tenancy agreements work and the tenants rights. (Comment about talking to their employer is alarming). Even if you had no problems this would be considered normal research and awareness.


Realistically unless they leave your fellow freeholder needs to serve notice and then go through the courts and that could take about 18months.

It doesn't seem your fellow freeholder wants to do this and to me that's your bigger issue.

Perhaps you and your fellow freeholders as a collective should have a freeholder meeting to discuss the issues, ensure you all understand the obligations of the lease and how they can be enforced.

Another resident informed the LL about the changing of the locks, which he then questioned the tenants about and after repeated denials, they admitted they had done that.  They did not offer any reason, or say that they would reinstate the old lock barrels when they leave.

I agree that it is worrying that the LL in question has little grasp of tenancy agreements or rights.  He seems to be relying on the goodwill of the tenant to move out at the end of their assured shorthold period, and clearly that is unlikely to happen and is unenforceable.  I am concerned that there could be a breach of the peace at some point, as another resident has already gone round there shouting the dds and hammering their door when the weed smoke finally got too much.  Not that this elicited any response.  But it all makes for a very tense atmosphere in the block where several flats are occupied by young families and elderly vulnerable.  

Given that you also say you were a landlord at one point, it’s equally worrying that you think it’s ok to go to a tenant’s employer and don’t have a clue about notice periods and getting tenants out lawfully. 

HampshireH

Grumpy_chap said:

HampshireH said:

I'm surprised to hear you have been a landlord with little/no knowledge of how tenancy agreements work and the tenants rights. (Comment about talking to their employer is alarming). Even if you had no problems this would be considered normal research and awareness.

As I understand it, the OP is not a LL but getting involved trying to sort the problem for the LL of another rented flat in the same block - the OP acting as a "concerned resident" and also as 1/10th of the freeholders for the block.

Yes but they have been a LL was my point

deannagone

This thread is getting a bit unpleasant.  No need to keep telling the OP the same thing. Its getting a bit 'hounding'?  We are better than that, surely?

This forum is to give advice, not judgments.