Nightmare tenant - advice please!!

GDB2222

AdrianC said:

swingaloo2 said:

Firstly you are calling the tenants criminals without proof of any kind. They may just be smoking for personal use and that is not illegal.

Possession is - and it's hard to smoke what they haven't got...

BUT it is a trivial offence, likely to be dealt with by a caution, if it's only a small amount and they have no previous record.

It's odd, really. Cannabis is a Class B drug. Possession can, at least in theory, result in a maximum sentence of 5 years in jail plus an unlimited fine. Yet, the police barely take any notice of it. 

GDB2222

Windsorcastle said:

I live in a block of 10 flats, which we jointly own the freehold for, and manage ourselves. 

You should read the lease for the let flat very carefully. There's a reasonable chance that the landlord is in breach - for example, there may be a requirement for notifying the freeholders before sub-letting.

Or, better still, all club together and hire a solicitor to look through it and advise you.

Grumpy_chap

GDB2222 said:

Windsorcastle said:

I live in a block of 10 flats, which we jointly own the freehold for, and manage ourselves. 

You should read the lease for the let flat very carefully. There's a reasonable chance that the landlord is in breach - for example, there may be a requirement for notifying the freeholders before sub-letting.

Or, better still, all club together and hire a solicitor to look through it and advise you.

Yet, the freeholders do know as this is not the first tenant in this particular flat.  In addition there are several flats let out in the block of only ten flats.  Even if the prior notification was not given, the permission cannot be unreasonably withheld - I doubt the other owners of the sub-let flats will have any desire to go down that route, nor is it likely to actually give a meaningful remedy:

Windsorcastle said:

I live in a block of 10 flats, which we jointly own the freehold for, and manage ourselves.  Several of the flats are rented out, and one landlord amongst our number has continuously rented to problem tenants over the past 3 years.  

Do the "several" flats that are rented out constitute the majority?

Windsorcastle

GDB2222 said:

AdrianC said:

swingaloo2 said:

Firstly you are calling the tenants criminals without proof of any kind. They may just be smoking for personal use and that is not illegal.

Possession is - and it's hard to smoke what they haven't got...

BUT it is a trivial offence, likely to be dealt with by a caution, if it's only a small amount and they have no previous record.

It's odd, really. Cannabis is a Class B drug. Possession can, at least in theory, result in a maximum sentence of 5 years in jail plus an unlimited fine. Yet, the police barely take any notice of it. 

By coincidence, our Safer Neighbourhoods Police team called round to the block this afternoon and gave every flat a leaflet stating that they were aware of Class B drug use in the block, that it is indeed illegal to use it even in a private property and that they would be 'monitoring' the situation.  Also asking us all to report any info.  However, they have already been told several times which flat is responsible.  Unfortunately the tenant in question was out today when they called, so there was no actual smoking at that time...

Windsorcastle

Grumpy_chap said:

GDB2222 said:

Windsorcastle said:

I live in a block of 10 flats, which we jointly own the freehold for, and manage ourselves. 

You should read the lease for the let flat very carefully. There's a reasonable chance that the landlord is in breach - for example, there may be a requirement for notifying the freeholders before sub-letting.

Or, better still, all club together and hire a solicitor to look through it and advise you.

Yet, the freeholders do know as this is not the first tenant in this particular flat.  In addition there are several flats let out in the block of only ten flats.  Even if the prior notification was not given, the permission cannot be unreasonably withheld - I doubt the other owners of the sub-let flats will have any desire to go down that route, nor is it likely to actually give a meaningful remedy:

Windsorcastle said:

I live in a block of 10 flats, which we jointly own the freehold for, and manage ourselves.  Several of the flats are rented out, and one landlord amongst our number has continuously rented to problem tenants over the past 3 years.  

Do the "several" flats that are rented out constitute the majority?

4 of the 10 are owner-occupied and the other 6 are rented.  I regret buying my flat now - my seller and EA told me that all but one of the flats were owner-occupied when I purchased 3 years ago, which I only discovered was untrue when I moved in.  Whilst most of the tenants are lovely, there have been a few other problems, not just with the flat in question, although that one has repeatedly been a problem.  

Windsorcastle

Grumpy_chap said:

Windsorcastle said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Windsorcastle said:

I have no sympathy for the LL , as he has rented to these criminals without carrying out any due diligence or taking references.  ...

How do you know that?

In a way, the fact the tenants are renting is far better for you than if the tenants had purchased. 

However unwelcome you find the tenant's behaviour, the fact they are renting does mean the LL has a route to evict should the LL be so motivated - that motivation is likely to come if / when the rent payments fail.

If the tenant's were purchasing, then there would not be even that glimmer of optimism for you.

By his own admission, he didn't take up references - we asked him to contact the tenant's employer and tell them about the rent arrears and drug use, and he confirmed he had no references - and as this is the third set of tenants who have caused problems of some sort, he never seems to learn his lesson.  

I very much doubt that the LL can inform the tenant's employer about anything - GDPR would see to that - or that the employer would be interested if informed.

The drug use you claim to know because of the smell that escape - how do you know about rent arrears?  That is none of your business and the LL should not have told you unless the tenant shared the information.

As for the LL taking no references, that does not mean no due diligence.  References are of little value - who would put forward a referee that won't give a good reference?  

You seem also very confused on the rights of the tenant as you have mentioned several times the change of locks as a sign of ill-intent.  The tenant is entirely entirely to their peaceful use of the property and security of the property.  The LL can only access the property with the tenant's agreement and for specific purposes.  There is no reason the tenant cannot change the lock barrel on moving in and simply replace the original barrel at departure.

As you are not the LL to the tenant, getting involved to this level of detail is likely only going to cause you undue stress and very little gain.  Are you, or have you ever been, a LL?  If not, then you need to really learn about all the rules and regulations that apply before getting involved beyond the level that anyone else can get involved with a neighbour dispute. 

I take it you are aware you will now need to declare this dispute when you ever come to sell your flat?  That may impact saleability.

You also ignored my comments about this being better a bad tenant who is renting than a bad tenant who has purchaed the flat.

I know all of the above about rent arrears etc because the LL has sought advice from me and some of the other freeholders, which is why I posted in the first place!  I do acknowledge your point about a bad tenant being preferable to a bad purchaser, you are quite right about that.  I have indeed been a LL previously but I was very lucky with my tenants and never had to deal with such serious issues myself.  Although I also was very careful to carry out credit checks and take up employment references, which probably helped.  

I'm pretty sure that tenants are NOT permitted to change locks without a LL's express permission, even if they do intend to change them back on departure.  But I will stand corrected if you know better.  However, wouldn't any LL be entitled to be cynical about the combination of criminality (drugs), changing the locks and stopping paying rent?

There is no dispute which needs to be declared in the event of selling my flat in the future - any 'dispute' is currently with the tenant who will hopefully no longer be there, not with the LL.  We are seeking to help the LL evict the tenant, notwithstanding that we are very annoyed with him for continually letting his flat to problematic and anti-social tenants.  

Grumpy_chap

Windsorcastle said:

4 of the 10 are owner-occupied and the other 6 are rented.  I regret buying my flat now - my seller and EA told me that all but one of the flats were owner-occupied when I purchased 3 years ago, which I only discovered was untrue when I moved in.  Whilst most of the tenants are lovely, there have been a few other problems, not just with the flat in question, although that one has repeatedly been a problem.  

10 freeholders in a block, 4 owner-occupied, 6 BTL (including the one that is the problem at this point in time).  Clearly, the LL of the problem tenant won't support any action by the management group and I doubt the other LL's will have any interest either unless the situation reaches a point whereby their interests are put at stake.  Trying to pursue action against this LL / tenant by invoking any rights of the freeholder / resolution for breach of long lease is going nowhere.

For the sake of your sanity, I'd let this drop as you will do more harm to yourself than anything else.

Finally, if you can't beat them, is it an option to join them?  I mean the BTL LL's, not to start smoking weed (just for clarity).

Slithery

Windsorcastle said:
I'm pretty sure that tenants are NOT permitted to change locks without a LL's express permission, even if they do intend to change them back on departure.

You are incorrect. I've always changed the locks on all of the properties that I've rented, you never know who else still has keys.

Windsorcastle

Grumpy_chap said:

Finally, if you can't beat them, is it an option to join them?  I mean the BTL LL's, not to start smoking weed (just for clarity).

That did give me a wry chuckle, thank you!

Windsorcastle

Slithery said:

Windsorcastle said:
I'm pretty sure that tenants are NOT permitted to change locks without a LL's express permission, even if they do intend to change them back on departure.

You are incorrect. I've always changed the locks on all of the properties that I've rented, you never know who else still has keys.

Fair enough.  I have only ever changed locks on a property I own for exactly the same reason, and am amazed that most new owners fail to do so.  But I would never have dared do it when I was renting, but I'm very compliant!