Nightmare tenant - advice please!!

dj1471

Also… 2 months notice may not be sufficient depending on the grounds being used for eviction. The landlord should ensure that a s8 notice has been correctly served with the right notice period. A s21 can’t be used if the tenancy is less than 4 months old or if the tenant is still in the minimum term.

Windsorcastle

tacpot12 said:

Your best route is to support the landlord of the problem tenants - do anything you can to help them get the tenants out. Then the management committee should withdraw his permission to sub-let, assuming that the landlord requires their permission to sub-let in the first place.   

You might try to check whether they have a cannabis farm set up in the flat. Unusual amounts of ventilation and electrical consumption might indicate this. Changing the locks is suspicious in this regard are most tenants don't change the locks (although they are legally entitled to do so), and those that do, do it on the day they move in to ensure that no-one else has a key to their property.

Eventually if the police continue to take no action in spite of actionable intelligence and/or evidence, you can make a formal complaint - your local Police and Crime Comissioner might be a better route than complaining to the police. 

Thank you.  Thankfully, we haven't seen strangers coming and going so hopefully they are not dealing.  However, they do keep their windows open at all times and use excessive amounts of air freshener to try and mask the smell.  That's why it is laughable that the police said they couldn't smell it.  I had a completely unconnected electrician round a few days ago and his opening comment was, "have you got a weed farm down there?"  

I suspect the lock-changing was part of their strategy to stay ensconced in the property as long as possible, given that they did it just a few weeks before they stopped paying rent...

We will look into whether owners need permission to sub-let, as that is something I hadn't thought of.  Thanks for that heads-up.

Windsorcastle

Lover_of_Lycra said:

Windsorcastle said:

So - just looking at the notice period for Section 8 evictions, clause 14 says there is no notice period required for illegal use of the property or causing a nuisance or annoyance.  Can't he invoke this?

14: Nuisance/annoyance, illegal/immoral use of property

None- proceedings may be commenced immediately after service of notice

It’s a discretionary ground for eviction that according to Tessa Shepperton no sane landlord would use. 

https://landlordlawblog.co.uk/2016/05/05/grounds-eviction-ground-14-nuisance-annoyance-criminal-conviction/

WOW!  Very interesting read, thanks for sharing it.  OK so S21 looks the way to go.  But by the sounds of things, could take a long time. I have no sympathy for the LL who will lose a huge amount of rental income, as he has rented to these criminals without carrying out any due diligence or taking references.  But this all makes for very depressing reading for those of us stuck here with the problem, though...

Windsorcastle

dj1471 said:

Also… 2 months notice may not be sufficient depending on the grounds being used for eviction. The landlord should ensure that a s8 notice has been correctly served with the right notice period. A s21 can’t be used if the tenancy is less than 4 months old or if the tenant is still in the minimum term.

Pretty sure the tenancy is less than 4 months old, so which type of notice should he be serving in that case?

[Deleted User]

Windsorcastle said:

Lover_of_Lycra said:

Windsorcastle said:

So - just looking at the notice period for Section 8 evictions, clause 14 says there is no notice period required for illegal use of the property or causing a nuisance or annoyance.  Can't he invoke this?

14: Nuisance/annoyance, illegal/immoral use of property

None- proceedings may be commenced immediately after service of notice

It’s a discretionary ground for eviction that according to Tessa Shepperton no sane landlord would use. 

https://landlordlawblog.co.uk/2016/05/05/grounds-eviction-ground-14-nuisance-annoyance-criminal-conviction/

WOW!  Very interesting read, thanks for sharing it.  OK so S21 looks the way to go.  But by the sounds of things, could take a long time. I have no sympathy for the LL who will lose a huge amount of rental income, as he has rented to these criminals without carrying out any due diligence or taking references.  But this all makes for very depressing reading for those of us stuck here with the problem, though...

There’s no defence against a correctly issued Section 21 however I wouldn’t hold my breath about the landlord not fluffing it up. Lots of things can make a Section 21 invalid. 

RAS

You need to start by asking the LL how long the fixed term is, as NO notice can be issued in the minimum term.

[Deleted User]

Windsorcastle said:

dj1471 said:

Also… 2 months notice may not be sufficient depending on the grounds being used for eviction. The landlord should ensure that a s8 notice has been correctly served with the right notice period. A s21 can’t be used if the tenancy is less than 4 months old or if the tenant is still in the minimum term.

Pretty sure the tenancy is less than 4 months old, so which type of notice should he be serving in that case?

I don’t think there is a mandatory ground for eviction the landlord could serve using a Section 8 notice at present. You can’t make the landlord serve notice and even if he did at some point in the future get his act together and serve valid notice the notice on its own doesn’t end the tenancy. Notice is just that, notice that the landlord might go to court to get a possession order. 

I think your time would be better spent working with the council’s noise team and reading the terms of the landlord’s lease to see if there’s anything the freeholder can get him on. 

Grumpy_chap

Windsorcastle said:

I have no sympathy for the LL , as he has rented to these criminals without carrying out any due diligence or taking references.  ...

How do you know that?

In a way, the fact the tenants are renting is far better for you than if the tenants had purchased. 

However unwelcome you find the tenant's behaviour, the fact they are renting does mean the LL has a route to evict should the LL be so motivated - that motivation is likely to come if / when the rent payments fail.

If the tenant's were purchasing, then there would not be even that glimmer of optimism for you.

RAS

Lover_of_Lycra said:

Windsorcastle said:

Lover_of_Lycra said:

Windsorcastle said:

So - just looking at the notice period for Section 8 evictions, clause 14 says there is no notice period required for illegal use of the property or causing a nuisance or annoyance.  Can't he invoke this?

14: Nuisance/annoyance, illegal/immoral use of property

None- proceedings may be commenced immediately after service of notice

It’s a discretionary ground for eviction that according to Tessa Shepperton no sane landlord would use. 

https://landlordlawblog.co.uk/2016/05/05/grounds-eviction-ground-14-nuisance-annoyance-criminal-conviction/

WOW!  Very interesting read, thanks for sharing it.  OK so S21 looks the way to go.  But by the sounds of things, could take a long time. I have no sympathy for the LL who will lose a huge amount of rental income, as he has rented to these criminals without carrying out any due diligence or taking references.  But this all makes for very depressing reading for those of us stuck here with the problem, though...

There’s no defence against a correctly issued Section 21 however I wouldn’t hold my breath about the landlord not fluffing it up. Lots of things can make a Section 21 invalid. 

 As LoL say's it is very easy to fluff a S21 notice, even if you've completely met all the legal requirements like deposit notices, leaflets and safety checks.

Given the evidence so far, it's quite possible that the LL hasn't met the basic statutory requirements. Not a fan of such companies but he should either get proper legal advice or use someone like Landlord Action to ensure he's got his ducks in a row at the start.

And use noise abatement and any lease requirements to encourage him to get the tenants out.

Windsorcastle

Grumpy_chap said:

Windsorcastle said:

I have no sympathy for the LL , as he has rented to these criminals without carrying out any due diligence or taking references.  ...

How do you know that?

In a way, the fact the tenants are renting is far better for you than if the tenants had purchased. 

However unwelcome you find the tenant's behaviour, the fact they are renting does mean the LL has a route to evict should the LL be so motivated - that motivation is likely to come if / when the rent payments fail.

If the tenant's were purchasing, then there would not be even that glimmer of optimism for you.

By his own admission, he didn't take up references - we asked him to contact the tenant's employer and tell them about the rent arrears and drug use, and he confirmed he had no references - and as this is the third set of tenants who have caused problems of some sort, he never seems to learn his lesson.