Nightmare tenant - advice please!!

Windsorcastle

I live in a block of 10 flats, which we jointly own the freehold for, and manage ourselves.  Several of the flats are rented out, and one landlord amongst our number has continuously rented to problem tenants over the past 3 years.  The latest tenants who have only been there for a couple of months are blatantly smoking weed on a daily basis, with the smell permeating the whole block, including flats with young children.  They also play incredibly loud music and argue loudly at all hours.  They changed the locks on their flat a few weeks ago, without the landlord's knowledge or permission.  And - surprise surprise - failed to make their most recent rent payment.  Unfortunately the landlord lives abroad, so is neither available to go round there himself, nor does he particularly appreciate the impact this is having on everyone else.  He has suggested that those of us who are complaining should go round and appeal to the tenants' better nature, but they are not at all approachable or friendly and seem stoned any time we have encountered them, so I wouldn't feel safe or able to confront them directly.  In any event, the management committee has previously sent a very polite letter to all residents about this issue, which clearly had no effect.  

We reported the weed-smoking to the police when it is was particularly noticeable, but the police didn't go round until 4 days later, at which point they said they couldn't smell weed (which is frankly impossible to believe) and that the tenant wouldn't let them in so they had to leave!  The tenants sometimes have a young child staying with them, but they told the police the child wasn't there on that day, and the police accepted that!  The tenants have carried on as before, stinking us all out with their weed.

The LL says he has put the flat on the market but the tenants are refusing access to the EA to take photos and the EA say they cannot market the property until they can do so.  The LL now says he has given the tenant 2 months' notice to leave, but we have no confidence that this will result in the tenant exiting, especially given their defiance and the changing of the locks.  

The LL is now telling the rest of us he can't do anything else until the eviction notice is up.  But can anyone advise on the following:

• Does changing the locks without permission constitute criminal damage, and can't the LL report that to Police?
• Does criminality, eg. the drugs, not give the LL or Police the right to force entry?
• Is there anything to stop us changing the lock on the communal entry door, to lock them out of the whole block?
• Is there anything else we can do?

This is causing a great deal of stress and anxiety in what has always been a happy and friendly family block, and we are despairing of how to resolve it, especially given that the Police clearly couldn't care less.  

Slithery

Windsorcastle said:

Does changing the locks without permission constitute criminal damage, and can't the LL report that to Police?

No.

Windsorcastle said:

Does criminality, eg. the drugs, not give the LL or Police the right to force entry?

The police can force entry if they have a good enough reason.

Windsorcastle said:

Is there anything to stop us changing the lock on the communal entry door, to lock them out of the whole block?

That would be illegal eviction. You could get a massive fine or even end up in prison.

Windsorcastle said:

Is there anything else we can do?

No. The LL needs to go through the legal process to evict the tenants. This could easily take well over a year.

anselld

See section 4 ...

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/understanding-the-possession-action-process-guidance-for-landlords-and-tenants/understanding-the-possession-action-process-a-guide-for-private-landlords-in-england-and-wales

Most of the powers rest with the police and local authority if you can persuade them to do anything.

Notice period for most evictions remains 4 months so I would be doubtful if the L knows what he is talking about re 2 months notice.  Serious anti-social behaviour is one month notice but I doubt this would come into that category.

AdrianC

Slithery said:

Windsorcastle said:

Does criminality, eg. the drugs, not give the LL or Police the right to force entry?

The police can force entry if they have a good enough reason.

And that's massively unlikely for personal-use quantities of cannabis.

Is there any suggestion that it's anything more than personal use? Any growing or dealing?

Windsorcastle said:

Is there anything else we can do?

No. The LL needs to go through the legal process to evict the tenants. This could easily take well over a year.

That's your bare minimum...

If it's a 12mo fixed tenancy, and they've only been there a couple of months, it could be 9-10 months before any section 21 notice (four months currently) expires.
You're up to 14mo already, September 2022.

Then, if the tenants do not move out, the landlord needs to go to court for possession. That's very likely to be into 2024 by the time it actually reaches court...

tacpot12

Your best route is to support the landlord of the problem tenants - do anything you can to help them get the tenants out. Then the management committee should withdraw his permission to sub-let, assuming that the landlord requires their permission to sub-let in the first place.   

I would suggest you start keeping a diary, and do call back to the police when the weed smell is very strong and the child is there - it becomes a safeguarding issue and the police can force entry. They can't and won't force entry for personal use of cannabis.

If you have evidence of strangers coming and going at all times of the day and night, report this to the police as they are likely to be dealing.

You might try to check whether they have a cannabis farm set up in the flat. Unusual amounts of ventilation and electrical consumption might indicate this. Changing the locks is suspicious in this regard are most tenants don't change the locks (although they are legally entitled to do so), and those that do, do it on the day they move in to ensure that no-one else has a key to their property.

Eventually if the police continue to take no action in spite of actionable intelligence and/or evidence, you can make a formal complaint - your local Police and Crime Comissioner might be a better route than complaining to the police. 

Windsorcastle

anselld said:

See section 4 ...

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/understanding-the-possession-action-process-guidance-for-landlords-and-tenants/understanding-the-possession-action-process-a-guide-for-private-landlords-in-england-and-wales

Most of the powers rest with the police and local authority if you can persuade them to do anything.

Notice period for most evictions remains 4 months so I would be doubtful if the L knows what he is talking about re 2 months notice.  Serious anti-social behaviour is one month notice but I doubt this would come into that category.

Thank you.  The LL says he has given them 2 months' notice, as stipulated within his tenancy agreement, but I don't have sight of the agreement to know what it says.  We can continue to report to the Police in the hope that they might actually go round while the young child is staying there, as that would surely be a police matter, but so far, the Police have not been helpful.  

anselld

Windsorcastle said:

anselld said:

See section 4 ...

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/understanding-the-possession-action-process-guidance-for-landlords-and-tenants/understanding-the-possession-action-process-a-guide-for-private-landlords-in-england-and-wales

Most of the powers rest with the police and local authority if you can persuade them to do anything.

Notice period for most evictions remains 4 months so I would be doubtful if the L knows what he is talking about re 2 months notice.  Serious anti-social behaviour is one month notice but I doubt this would come into that category.

Thank you.  The LL says he has given them 2 months' notice, as stipulated within his tenancy agreement, but I don't have sight of the agreement to know what it says.  We can continue to report to the Police in the hope that they might actually go round while the young child is staying there, as that would surely be a police matter, but so far, the Police have not been helpful.  

The tenancy agreement is overridden by the Coronavirus Act 2020 which extends normal notice periods to (currently) 4 months.  Two months notice will fail at the first hurdle when it eventually comes to court and then he will have to start again.

babyblade41

I doubt the Police will get involved and re:the child then it's more to do with social services.

Eviction is going to take time possibly 12 months or more especially if they will need re-housing so don't rely on a 2 month eviction notice 

Windsorcastle

So - just looking at the notice period for Section 8 evictions, clause 14 says there is no notice period required for illegal use of the property or causing a nuisance or annoyance.  Can't he invoke this?

14: Nuisance/annoyance, illegal/immoral use of property

None- proceedings may be commenced immediately after service of notice

RAS

Read Tenancies in Eng/Wales: Guides for landlords and tenants — MoneySavingExpert Forum

assuming you are in England and Wales

So that you understand the limitations of what you can do.

Is the leaseholder managing the tenancy themselves or do they use an agency?

Because the current minimum for notice to leave is 4 months, not pre-Covid 2 months. And that notice can't be given until the fixed notice ends. How long is the initial rental period?

Unless the tenants are seriously in arrears and there is evidence of anti-social behaviour, it takes about a year to get a case to court and then ages to get bailiffs.

No one is going to buy the flat until the tenants move out, unless it's sold to an investor who wants the tenants in situ. 

I suggest you point out to the landlord that E&W rental law has changed and they need to get up to speed as the current notice is invalid. There are some very effective companies who will manage the eviction process which they might be wise to use as they are overseas. They cost but if it means extracting the tenants a year earlier it may be worth it to him.

I'm guessing you are not satisfied with the management company's response otherwise, but they are also limited in what they can do. Get them to read the lease? 

Meantime, try to learn more about the tenant's names etc and the child and if you are seriously concerned, report to child safeguarding.

[Deleted User]

Windsorcastle said:

So - just looking at the notice period for Section 8 evictions, clause 14 says there is no notice period required for illegal use of the property or causing a nuisance or annoyance.  Can't he invoke this?

14: Nuisance/annoyance, illegal/immoral use of property

None- proceedings may be commenced immediately after service of notice

It’s a discretionary ground for eviction that according to Tessa Shepperton no sane landlord would use. 

https://landlordlawblog.co.uk/2016/05/05/grounds-eviction-ground-14-nuisance-annoyance-criminal-conviction/