Is it dangerous to move to house with structural issues

hnnguse

I’m so stressed and so sorry to vent here.

I’m a single mum and in a process to buy a house for my children. Out of my stupidity…I involved my kids father. He was very negative from the start and discouraging me to buy a house, never said anything positive / supportive or to congratulate me. He complained there is no parking, school journey will be long (20 minutes)….that’s not an issue for as I can manage that and have been renting for 9 years and never had allocated parking.

I decided to take him to see the house. While we were outside, he said he will never park his car there. I ignored that. Even when we went inside the house , everything was negative. He even said , he will prove to me that this is not a good house. I love the house and that not for me But it will be a home for my kids.

He is a Structural Engineer and  has since completed a Structural report stating that the house is dangerous, (open plan conversion and chimney breast removal) his kids will not go there.  He has threatened to take me to court if I bought it. 

I feel this is a personal attack towards me .Are these kind of issues serious as I am not to keen withdraw from the purchase …and the vendor already accepted my lower offer and not willing  to reduce further. Lender has provided the offer and we ready to go. 

I’m so sorry to vent here..

Update: 27th July- Following the advise from the group. I instructed an independent Chartered SE.  His views were : “ I have no reason to doubt the safety of the property, there are no indications of any structural damage, or possible future failures.
”During my visit I couldn’t find any signs that may cause any concern on the buildings current stability / soundness.”

“Without opening exposing what looks like a drop beam in the lounge, I wont be able to verify the adequacy of the support, however I couldn’t find any cracks or any other signs of structural damage that may raise concern.”

24th Aug- The court has served me with my ex application for prohibited Steps Order, stopping me to move with the children .The hearing is next week Thursday,2nd Sept. I am moving this Saturday, 28th Aug. His solicitors have emailed me, telling me not to move or the ex will not return the children to me if I moved. Will That not be kid abduction? I am still moving anyway and the only person who will move my children out of that house is the Judge on Thursday. 

I’m stressed, physically and mentally exhausted but I have to fight this battle for my children. Will keep you updated

 

elsien

Get a proper survey done by someone independent, not by someone with an axe to grind. 

doodling

Hi,

If the house has structural issues such that it is dangerous then it is reasonable that he wants to protect his children.  Having said that, I don't think that a court would treat his views as unbiased.

Converting to open plan and removing chimney breasts is perfectly safe if done correctly.  What does your survey say about these issues?  If the house has had building work carried out, what did the vendor write about it on the property information forms?  Does the council have a record of building regulations approval for the work (don't ask the council this question (it might affect any insurance involved), ask your solicitor)?

What you need is confidence from your surveyor, your solicitor and ultimately the vendor, that the work has been done correctly.  This isn't just because of what your ex is saying, if it hasn't been done right, you might find that you can't sell it without spending money fixing any problems.

Unless the work has been done really badly, it is unlikely that someone can tell whether the work has been done correctly without an intrusive inspection (i.e. looking under floorboards or behind plaster).  If your ex has not done this then his report probably isn't worth very much.

I would note that your ex could be taking a significant personal risk if he did take it to court and gave a misleading view of any risks - he will have a duty not to bring his profession into disrepute.

deannagone

Getting an independent professional structural survey done will not only let you know whether these risks are serious and/or expensive but will also provide protection against your ex's threats.  The word manipulative just isn't strong enough sometimes (I'm sure some of us have been there). 

If he doesn't want to park his car there, just smile brightly and say "will make it a bit awkward to pick up the children but sure you can find parking elsewhere, your choice of course".  Adopt a water off a duck's back approach.  If he says anything about the house, just say "that will be difficult and expensive for you to prove in court.  Fortunately I have had a full structural survey done.., your choice though". Smile confidently.  And change the subject or walk calmly away. 

Its what I learned to do rather than reward the behaviour by showing stress.

20 minutes is nothing for a school drop off.

london21

From what you have said, I will say definitely get a second opinion from a professional.

If it’s so bad and dangerous, a full survey will bring this up. 

he might be right or he might be a negative jealous person. 

hnnguse

doodling said:

Hi,

If the house has structural issues such that it is dangerous then it is reasonable that he wants to protect his children.  Having said that, I don't think that a court would treat his views as unbiased.

Converting to open plan and removing chimney breasts is perfectly safe if done correctly.  What does your survey say about these issues?  If the house has had building work carried out, what did the vendor write about it on the property information forms?  Does the council have a record of building regulations approval for the work (don't ask the council this question (it might affect any insurance involved), ask your solicitor)?

What you need is confidence from your surveyor, your solicitor and ultimately the vendor, that the work has been done correctly.  This isn't just because of what your ex is saying, if it hasn't been done right, you might find that you can't sell it without spending money fixing any problems.

Unless the work has been done really badly, it is unlikely that someone can tell whether the work has been done correctly without an intrusive inspection (i.e. looking under floorboards or behind plaster).  If your ex has not done this then his report probably isn't worth very much.

I would note that your ex could be taking a significant personal risk if he did take it to court and gave a misleading view of any risks - he will have a duty not to bring his profession into disrepute.

My solicitors have spoken to the vendors solicitors, but they were not aware of these issues. They have only lived in the property for 2 years and these renovations might have been done by the previous seller.
From the searches, the Local Authority does not have any record of building work approval for this house. The vendors have offered Indemnity Insurance but from doing research’s I understand it doesn’t cover Structural issues.

Ex- man has has not looked under floor boards. His survey report is based on observations.

hnnguse

 Summary/ screenshot  from his report: 

FaceHead

The report doesn't sound too bad. Wasn't able to get into the loft, and some queries about one wall but doesn't say that there is massive cracking, sagging etc. that would be consistent with something about to fall on your kids heads. 

It seems what he's said is driven by his feelings but the professional-ish report shows that there's actually nothing to worry about (haven't seen the whole thing). 

hnnguse

FaceHead said:

The report doesn't sound too bad. Wasn't able to get into the loft, and some queries about one wall but doesn't say that there is massive cracking, sagging etc. that would be consistent with something about to fall on your kids heads. 

It seems what he's said is driven by his feelings but the professional-ish report shows that there's actually nothing to worry about (haven't seen the whole thing). 

I have instructed drain test, but no issues raised. So the wall cracks are just normal cracks…

Doozergirl

hnnguse said:

 Summary/ screenshot  from his report: 

Did you ask him for this? 

When I employ a structural engineer, it is for a solution, not a over-egged survey.  Surveyors are for surveys (that are always scary), structural engineers are for solutions, not even more scarily worded surveys.  I would certainly expect my *friend* to offer me proper advice and support.   With my own years of experience, it is still be a privilege to be asked by friends for help.  And help
and reassuring solutions is what I provide, not reports that will read to them as devastating!  

Has he actually given you solutions?  I'm guessing not as any normal SE would calmly give instructions on any remedial work needed - if any - not effectively tell everyone to get out of the building 🙄

What kind of survey did you have, please?  Just a valuation or a homebuyers?  Have they described the situation? Usually they'd ask for the building control documents, but if there was a particular concern, they would be asking for a structural engineer's report themselves and you wouldn't have a mortgage without one!  Their primary concern is that your house pays them back in the event that the house is repossessed- at any point in your mortgage term.  They don't lend in dangerous houses.  

Frankly, if the house was dangerous to the point that children aren't allowed in it (ie. no one is allowed in it!) it would never have passed survey.  

To add some perspective.  People knock their houses about without getting the right paperwork all the time.  The fact that you have 'down-stands' hiding steels is an overall positive feature.  At least they've tried.  

The brick wall upstairs without a brick wall underneath is common.  It's definitely not perfect engineering but there will be so many walls like that up and down the country.  My aunt has the same in her house.    I have worked on houses with SEs where modern calcs suggest that something won't stand up, but the reality is very different and they advise to just leave it.  Chimney breasts - there are different ways of supporting them, not often with steel, in my experience.  SEs commonly specify with tripled-up joists for us at the moment, which you won't see.   They used to specify gallows brackets, which you might.  

You're nowhere near the first or last person to have a house without building control
approval, but without a bit of plaster removal, it's all guesswork
and so he's wrong to want to condemn anything without knowing.  But a decent structural engineer is always there to HELP you and they should be able to take it in their stride without any degree of drama.  Absolutely everything is fixable (if it needs to be fixed). I've been building and  renovating for over 20 years now and he's not describing any kind of phenomenon that any builder wouldn't see as bread and butter.  

Remedial works, if they are needed for peace of mind, shouldn't be hugely expensive as building work goes - all the really messy, destructive stuff has been done.  

I can't totally put your mind at rest, I can only tell you how common this stuff is and that people go ahead every day and buy properties like yours.  It doesn't make your house a bad house.   It might want a bit of extra support, it might not. 

I definitely think you need an impartial SE to help you.  The seed has been sown, it's best to get it all checked out calmly.  Don't
be afraid if there is a bit of work.  You're buying a house.  They ALL need work. 

hnnguse

Doozergirl said:

hnnguse said:

 Summary/ screenshot  from his report: 

Did you ask him for this? 

He provided a structural Report. Yes , I asked him but I was hoping that he will be supportive…and be reassuring…. But not. The valuation from lender raised no issues and I have the Mortgage offer 

he has stated that the work will cost about £17K and I was not ready for that ….. the vendor is not keen to reduce price.

I live in Kent band house prices are crazy but the vendor was kind enough to accept my lower offer.