Disputing a ticket - frustration of contract?

Coupon-mad

Parking charge notices will be issued for depositing of rubbish, litter, liquids and gum?!

What, so people on foot, and passengers could do that then, but not drivers.  Ridiculous old clause.

Castle

Vanadesse said:

Redx said:

Try to find out if they bought the land from tiger properties and if it was in 2016 or later

Bear in mind they may have no contract with Excel and so the previous contract could have died at the time of acquisition , so they may have tea and sympathy , but no muscle to tell Excel to back off

I can’t be 100% sure but it looks like Tiger Properties had liquidated and it looks like Harbert were landowners in 2017, whether in 2016 or not I can’t be certain at this moment in time. If there was no contract with Harbert, wouldn’t it mean that they were working without landowner authority?

Tiger Properties Ltd is still going; however, they have never owned any property.
https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/00523040

Vanadesse

Castle said:

Vanadesse said:

Redx said:

Try to find out if they bought the land from tiger properties and if it was in 2016 or later

Bear in mind they may have no contract with Excel and so the previous contract could have died at the time of acquisition , so they may have tea and sympathy , but no muscle to tell Excel to back off

I can’t be 100% sure but it looks like Tiger Properties had liquidated and it looks like Harbert were landowners in 2017, whether in 2016 or not I can’t be certain at this moment in time. If there was no contract with Harbert, wouldn’t it mean that they were working without landowner authority?

Tiger Properties Ltd is still going; however, they have never owned any property.
https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/00523040

Ah it looks like it was Optic Asset Management that went into liquidation. From what I can see, Harbert was landowner in 2016. 

Fruitcake

Not needed at this stage, but I have found some GSV images spanning the date of the alleged event where the entrance sign is nicely hidden behind a tree, and a pedestrian is about to step off the pavement to cross the entrance, meaning that's where a driver would be looking, not at signs in tiny font.

I'm guessing you drove in with the entrance on your left, but anyone approaching with the entrance on the right wouldn't see the sign at all. 
There is no large, prominent entrance sign showing a large letter P, nor is there anything in large lettering to warn a driver it is pay and display with a half hour free limit.

Do contact the planning department and ask if planning permission exists for the ANPR scameras, if advertising consent was granted for the signs, and what was the authorised free parking period for the site.
Not having advertising consent is a criminal offence (but only the council can pursue it).
Failure to enforce the criminal offence is also misconduct in public office. (No need to go down that route ... yet. You want the planning department on your side.)

Signs greater than 0.3m2 need advertising consent in accordance with the Town and Country Planning (Control of Advertisements) Regulations 2007 and the unauthorised display of advertisements is a criminal offence liable for prosecution.

Planning approval can be granted retrospectively, but advertising consent cannot. 

If you determine that the free parking period as granted in the original planning approval for the site has been arbitrarily reduced, you can then use that as ammunition in your complaints to the landowner.
You can then also contact your MP and local council, and ask them to contact the MP and council for the site (if different to yours).

I found this site very useful to contact my MP and council, who then did indeed contact the MP and council for the site where a friend of mine got a PCN after the free parking period had been reduced from three hours to two.
My councillor was very clued up and referred to the PoFA requirements in his email to the other council.

WriteToThem - Email your Councillor, MP, MSP, MS, MLA or London Assembly Member for free

Vanadesse

Fruitcake said:

Not needed at this stage, but I have found some GSV images spanning the date of the alleged event where the entrance sign is nicely hidden behind a tree.

I'm guessing you drove in with the entrance on your left, but anyone approaching with the entrance on the right wouldn't see the sign at all. 
There is no large, prominent entrance sign showing a large letter P, nor is there anything in large lettering to warn a driver it is pay and display with a half hour free limit.

Do contact the planning department and ask if planning permission exists for the ANPR scameras, if advertising consent was granted for the signs, and what was the authorised free parking period for the site.
Not having advertising consent is a criminal offence (but only the council can pursue it).
Failure to enforce the criminal offence is also misconduct in public office. (No need to go down that route ... yet. You want the planning department on your side.)

Signs greater than 0.3m2 need advertising consent in accordance with the Town and Country Planning (Control of Advertisements) Regulations 2007 and the unauthorised display of advertisements is a criminal offence liable for prosecution.

Planning approval can be granted retrospectively, but advertising consent cannot. 

This is really helpful thanks. Where would I find those images please?

Fruitcake

I'm working on them now. I should have them ready in under half a cuppa. 

Vanadesse

Fruitcake said:

I'm working on them now. I should have them ready in under half a cuppa. 

You're a star - thank you!

I really appreciate everyone's time and help here. You guys don't know me, you have no benefit to any of this other than simply 'sticking it to the man' that is Excel Parking so I really do appreciate it.

Fruitcake

Let's play, spot the entrance sign.

Approaching with the car park on the left. Note the all important image capture date at the bottom of the photo

2015
Mind the pedestrian!



2016



2015
Approaching with the car park on the right. Note the lack of sign facing a driver, and the road markings. This is the earliest a motorist can change lanes to make a turn into the entrance.



2016




It is reasonable to assume that on the balance of probabilities, the site entrance and signage remained the same between the image capture dates of July 2015 and June 2016, the signage did not change, therefore it can reasonably be assumed this represents the layout and signage at the time of the alleged event.
Then factor in time and day and weather conditions that would have made it impossible for a driver to see the signs.

You might be able to reproduce the conditions by driving past the entrance in similar light and weather conditions, getting a passenger to take photos as you go. 

Vanadesse

I don't know if I'm being stupid but I cannot find a single application in relation to the retail park itself, just the individual stores and from that, nothing to do with the car parking signs, ANPR cameras etc. Even on map view, nothing.

https://publicaccess.tameside.gov.uk/online-applications/spatialDisplay.do?action=display&searchType=Application

Vanadesse

Fruitcake said:

Let's play, spot the entrance sign.

Approaching with the car park on the left. Note the all important image capture date at the bottom of the photo

2015
Mind the pedestrian!



2016



2015
Approaching with the car park on the right. Note the lack of sign facing a driver, and the road markings. This is the earliest a motorist can change lanes to make a turn into the entrance.



2016




It is reasonable to assume that on the balance of probabilities, the site entrance and signage remained the same between the image capture dates of July 2015 and June 2016, the signage did not change, therefore it can reasonably be assumed this represents the layout and signage at the time of the alleged event.
Then factor in time and day and weather conditions that would have made it impossible for a driver to see the signs.

You might be able to reproduce the conditions by driving past the entrance in similar light and weather conditions, getting a passenger to take photos as you go. 

This is really helpful, thank you.