Disputing a ticket - frustration of contract?

Le_Kirk

You need to refer back to the NEWBIE sticky to find out how to submit the AoS through the MCOL site using the Government Gateway and the log-in and password on the N1 form.  This will buy you extra time to submit your defence.  Also read the standard defence template.  Do NOT submit you defence using MCOL but instead use the e-mail address that is advised in NEWBIE or the template.

D_P_Dance

They are claiming for £286.11, made up of £160 for the parking charge, interest at 8%, court fee and legal representative costs.

They have added what appears to be an extra unlawful amount for debt collection. Judges have dismissed an entire claim because of this. Read this and complain to your MP.

Excel v Wilkinson

At the Bradford County Court, District Judge Claire Jackson (now HHJ Jackson, a Specialist Civil Circuit Judge) decided to hear a 'test case' a few months ago, where £60 had been added to a parking charge despite Judges up and down the country repeatedly disallowing that sum and warning parking firms not to waste court time with such spurious claims.   That case was Excel v Wilkinson: G4QZ465V, heard in July 2020 and leave to appeal was refused and that route was not pursued.  The Judge concluded that such claims are proceedings with 'an improper collateral purpose'.   This Judge - and others who have since copied her words and struck dozens of cases out in late 2020 and into 2021 - went into significant detail and concluded that parking operators (such as this Claimant) are seeking to circumvent CPR 27.14 as well as breaching the Consumer Rights Act 2015.   DJ Hickinbottom has recently struck more cases out in that court area, stating: ''I find that striking out this claim is the only appropriate manner in which the disapproval of the court can be shown''.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/16qovzulab1szem/G4QZ465V%20Excel%20v%20Wilkinson.pdf?dl=0

Also read this

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6279348/witness-statements-2-transcripts-re-parking-firms-false-costs-recorder-cohen-qc-judgment-2021/p1

Vanadesse

Le_Kirk said:

You need to refer back to the NEWBIE sticky to find out how to submit the AoS through the MCOL site using the Government Gateway and the log-in and password on the N1 form.  This will buy you extra time to submit your defence.  Also read the standard defence template.  Do NOT submit you defence using MCOL but instead use the e-mail address that is advised in NEWBIE or the template.

Yes I have seen that, although I also saw reference to printing and posting so I wasn't quite sure which was correct. I've just finished my draft defence using that standard defence template and what I had already written. Would it be 'safe' to post a pdf version here for reading over and any further advice on it?

Vanadesse

D_P_Dance said:

They are claiming for £286.11, made up of £160 for the parking charge, interest at 8%, court fee and legal representative costs.

They have added what appears to be an extra unlawful amount for debt collection. Judges have dismissed an entire claim because of this. Read this and complain to your MP.

Excel v Wilkinson

At the Bradford County Court, District Judge Claire Jackson (now HHJ Jackson, a Specialist Civil Circuit Judge) decided to hear a 'test case' a few months ago, where £60 had been added to a parking charge despite Judges up and down the country repeatedly disallowing that sum and warning parking firms not to waste court time with such spurious claims.   That case was Excel v Wilkinson: G4QZ465V, heard in July 2020 and leave to appeal was refused and that route was not pursued.  The Judge concluded that such claims are proceedings with 'an improper collateral purpose'.   This Judge - and others who have since copied her words and struck dozens of cases out in late 2020 and into 2021 - went into significant detail and concluded that parking operators (such as this Claimant) are seeking to circumvent CPR 27.14 as well as breaching the Consumer Rights Act 2015.   DJ Hickinbottom has recently struck more cases out in that court area, stating: ''I find that striking out this claim is the only appropriate manner in which the disapproval of the court can be shown''.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/16qovzulab1szem/G4QZ465V%20Excel%20v%20Wilkinson.pdf?dl=0

Also read this

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6279348/witness-statements-2-transcripts-re-parking-firms-false-costs-recorder-cohen-qc-judgment-2021/p1

Yes my defence basically starts by saying it should be thrown out before hearing on that basis.

Vanadesse

I have put together this defence, if anyone with knowledge and experience is able to cast an eye over it, that would be greatly appreciated: https://www.dropbox.com/s/awk2woyqsxta4li/Defence.pdf?dl=0

Then if it gets to court, I will obviously include all evidence as mentioned in that defence, including my RAC Customer Assistance Report, pdf versions of email correspondence, transcripts of relevant cases that I've cited, the signage, photos of the site from Google Maps and the IPA appeal.

Le_Kirk

Vanadesse said:

Le_Kirk said:

You need to refer back to the NEWBIE sticky to find out how to submit the AoS through the MCOL site using the Government Gateway and the log-in and password on the N1 form.  This will buy you extra time to submit your defence.  Also read the standard defence template.  Do NOT submit you defence using MCOL but instead use the e-mail address that is advised in NEWBIE or the template.

Yes I have seen that, although I also saw reference to printing and posting so I wasn't quite sure which was correct. I've just finished my draft defence using that standard defence template and what I had already written. Would it be 'safe' to post a pdf version here for reading over and any further advice on it?

What is the date of issue of the claim form?  Add five days to that and do not do the AoS until that date has passed.
Your defence does not seem to be based on the standard defence template.  Any reason for that?

Vanadesse

Le_Kirk said:

Vanadesse said:

Le_Kirk said:

You need to refer back to the NEWBIE sticky to find out how to submit the AoS through the MCOL site using the Government Gateway and the log-in and password on the N1 form.  This will buy you extra time to submit your defence.  Also read the standard defence template.  Do NOT submit you defence using MCOL but instead use the e-mail address that is advised in NEWBIE or the template.

Yes I have seen that, although I also saw reference to printing and posting so I wasn't quite sure which was correct. I've just finished my draft defence using that standard defence template and what I had already written. Would it be 'safe' to post a pdf version here for reading over and any further advice on it?

What is the date of issue of the claim form?  Add five days to that and do not do the AoS until that date has passed.
Your defence does not seem to be based on the standard defence template.  Any reason for that?

22/10 so only yesterday. Any particular reason for waiting at least 5 days?

The defence was a bit of a mix of the standard defence template and one that was in the newbie thread that was put as a very good example apparently. The order might need working around more as my head was getting a bit jumbled doing it. Or I could be completely on the wrong track with it of course. I’ve never been here before so not really a clue what I’m doing!

Redx

Vanadesse said:

Le_Kirk said:

Vanadesse said:

Le_Kirk said:

You need to refer back to the NEWBIE sticky to find out how to submit the AoS through the MCOL site using the Government Gateway and the log-in and password on the N1 form.  This will buy you extra time to submit your defence.  Also read the standard defence template.  Do NOT submit you defence using MCOL but instead use the e-mail address that is advised in NEWBIE or the template.

Yes I have seen that, although I also saw reference to printing and posting so I wasn't quite sure which was correct. I've just finished my draft defence using that standard defence template and what I had already written. Would it be 'safe' to post a pdf version here for reading over and any further advice on it?

What is the date of issue of the claim form?  Add five days to that and do not do the AoS until that date has passed.
Your defence does not seem to be based on the standard defence template.  Any reason for that?

22/10 so only yesterday. Any particular reason for waiting at least 5 days?

The defence was a bit of a mix of the standard defence template and one that was in the newbie thread that was put as a very good example apparently. The order might need working around more as my head was getting a bit jumbled doing it. Or I could be completely on the wrong track with it of course. I’ve never been here before so not really a clue what I’m doing!

Because it gives you a longer deadline , your pack tells you that the service date is 5 days after the issue date , followed by the standard 14 days , plus doing the AOS online at the right time gives a further 14 days , making deadline day 33 days after the issue date , if done correctly

So I don't believe that you have understood the court claim pack , or misinterpreted it

AOS should be done say next Thursday , the 28th , or later

Follow the defence template post by coupon mad , adapting paragraphs 2 and 3 only , posting your proposed draft of just 2 and 3 below , even if it's 5 paragraphs , it's your homework being checked , not the work of coupon mad , so easier all round

Vanadesse

Redx said:

Vanadesse said:

Le_Kirk said:

Vanadesse said:

Le_Kirk said:

You need to refer back to the NEWBIE sticky to find out how to submit the AoS through the MCOL site using the Government Gateway and the log-in and password on the N1 form.  This will buy you extra time to submit your defence.  Also read the standard defence template.  Do NOT submit you defence using MCOL but instead use the e-mail address that is advised in NEWBIE or the template.

Yes I have seen that, although I also saw reference to printing and posting so I wasn't quite sure which was correct. I've just finished my draft defence using that standard defence template and what I had already written. Would it be 'safe' to post a pdf version here for reading over and any further advice on it?

What is the date of issue of the claim form?  Add five days to that and do not do the AoS until that date has passed.
Your defence does not seem to be based on the standard defence template.  Any reason for that?

22/10 so only yesterday. Any particular reason for waiting at least 5 days?

The defence was a bit of a mix of the standard defence template and one that was in the newbie thread that was put as a very good example apparently. The order might need working around more as my head was getting a bit jumbled doing it. Or I could be completely on the wrong track with it of course. I’ve never been here before so not really a clue what I’m doing!

Because it gives you a longer deadline , you pack tells you that the service date is 5 days after the issue date , followed by the standard 14 days , plus doing the AOS online at the right time gives a further 14 days , making deadline day 33 days after the issue date , if done correctly

So I don't believe that you have understood the court claim pack , or misinterpreted it

AOS should be done say next Thursday , the 28th , or later

Ah I see. Yes I had thought it was automatically 28 days from then, that makes sense thank you. 

KeithP

With a Claim Issue Date of 22nd October, you have until Wednesday 10th November to file an Acknowledgment of Service. Do not file an AoS before 27th October, but otherwise there is nothing to be gained by delaying it. 

To file an AoS, follow the guidance in the Dropbox file linked from the second post in the NEWBIES thread.

Having filed an AoS in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Wednesday 24th November 2021 to file your Defence.

That's over four weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.

To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look again at the second post on the NEWBIES thread - immediately following where you found the Acknowledgment of Service instructions.

Don't miss the deadline for filing an Acknowledgment of Service, nor that for filing a Defence.

Do not try and file a Defence via the MoneyClaimOnline website. Once an Acknowledgment of Service has been filed, the MCOL website should be treated as 'read only'.