Disputing a ticket - frustration of contract?

Fruitcake

I'm the sort of person that will bother the Planning Department so it causes bother to the PPC, irrespective of whether it helps getting a PCN cancelled or not.

In my opinion, anything that shows the PPC in a bad light is a good thing.

Umkomaas

I was just getting concerned that the OP might be thinking this is a 'gotcha' and expending disproportionate energy in chasing it. 

Vanadesse

Fruitcake said:

I'm the sort of person that will bother the Planning Department so it causes bother to the PPC, irrespective of whether it helps getting a PCN cancelled or not.

In my opinion, anything that shows the PPC in a bad light is a good thing.

Yes this is pretty much it. It’s not really linked to the PCN I’m aware, although I was searching for permission for the signage to have an idea of when things changed over, but making things more difficult for them because they’re royal a*******s and have harassed me now for years, using BW Legal and their bullying tactics. Anything that is a thorn in their side is worth the hassle and even if it pisses them off enough to take me to court, so be it. I’m prepared to defend my case if needed. 

Vanadesse

Update: I've had a response from my SAR without a contract, unsurprisingly. I have gone back to them requesting that contract again as evidence that they have the right to gather and process my data for the landowner but I suspect that they aren't going to be forthcoming with this. I've also pointed out that they are non-compliant with the BPA Code of Practice as they haven't allowed a grace period of a minimum of 10 minutes.

No further correspondence with the planning department, I've followed up with them again today.

Coupon-mad

Good.  You won’t get the contract this early though, only pre hearing in court.

Have you seen that the vital Government Consultation is now open and only for 3 weeks more?

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6286801/government-consultation-re-private-parking-charge-levels-august-2021-please-bookmark-this-thread/p1

Please do a full and robust response by email to the MHCLG, attaching evidence of what happened to you.

Vanadesse

I have responded to that consultation yes, quite some time ago now. 

I’ve eventually had a response from DCB Legal today (it’s only taken 2 months!) basically ignoring what I said previously and gave me a mostly copied and pasted response of you parked without a ticket, we captured you on ANPR (I never found any permission for these btw) and applied to the DVLA and now you have 30 days from today to make a payments £160 or we’ll issue a claim.

What are more next steps here? Wait for a claim? I didn’t want to go down that route but may have to. 

KeithP

Vanadesse said:

I’ve eventually had a response from DCB Legal today (it’s only taken 2 months!) basically ignoring what I said previously and gave me a mostly copied and pasted response of you parked without a ticket, we captured you on ANPR (I never found any permission for these btw) and applied to the DVLA and now you have 30 days from today to make a payments £160 or we’ll issue a claim.

What are more next steps here? Wait for a claim? I didn’t want to go down that route but may have to. 

Isn't that how this thread started back in July?
Your opening post tells us that you received a Letter of Claim then.

I've not re-read all the intervening posts, but your best bet is to go back to the NEWBIES thread.

Again you need to be reading the first few paragraphs of the second post on that thread which explain exactly how to react upon receipt of a Letter of Claim.

Vanadesse

KeithP said:

Vanadesse said:

I’ve eventually had a response from DCB Legal today (it’s only taken 2 months!) basically ignoring what I said previously and gave me a mostly copied and pasted response of you parked without a ticket, we captured you on ANPR (I never found any permission for these btw) and applied to the DVLA and now you have 30 days from today to make a payments £160 or we’ll issue a claim.

What are more next steps here? Wait for a claim? I didn’t want to go down that route but may have to. 

Isn't that how this thread started back in July?
Your opening post tells us that you received a Letter of Claim then.

I've not re-read all the intervening posts, but your best bet is to go back to the NEWBIES thread.

Again you need to be reading the first few paragraphs of the second post on that thread which explain exactly how to react upon receipt of a Letter of Claim.

Thanks for the reply but there’s quite a lot of information in the posts between my original post and my last update and you’re telling me to do something I’ve already done. This isn’t a letter of claim, it is an email response to what I’ve discussed in the in between posts which I am assuming will revert us back to the letter of claim but whether this email is enough to officially meet those pre-claim requirements, I don’t know. So I am assuming that based on that thread, the next step is just now waiting for a claim to be made. 

KeithP

Vanadesse said:

I’ve eventually had a response from DCB Legal today [. . .] now you have 30 days from today to make a payments £160 or we’ll issue a claim.

That's a Letter of Claim.

OK, a second Letter of Claim.

Vanadesse

Tagging those that have previously helped in here in the hope that you might have anything to add - @Fruitcake @Coupon-mad@Redx @Snakes_Belly @Le_Kirk @MothballsWallet - thank you to each of you for your invaluable help so far.

OK so further update - this morning I received a claim form from Northampton. It was expected but I have to be honest, I'd hoped it would just disappear and now I'm feel a bit stressed and panicky! They are claiming for £286.11, made up of £160 for the parking charge, interest at 8%, court fee and legal representative costs.

Obviously there an awful lot of background info here in this thread but my issues here are the mitigating circumstances that mean I should have had it cancelled in the first place (I have found a number of legal precendents to support this), potential lack of landowner authority, not ideal signage (I've been told it's not enough to have formed a contract as it's not prominent enough to have formed a contract simply entering the car park), they've added on that ridiculous £60 and quite frankly, they've been appalling and harrassing in the whole handling of this, particularly BW Legal. I've literally been in tears over this multiple times from the stress and anxiety that it's caused and have wasted far too many hours on trying to put this all to bed.

So I guess my question is what now, any specific advice? Obviously I've read the announcement threads.

I know I have 14 days to respond. I may for now just do the acknowledgement, giving me 28 days to respond. I have already put together a defence knowing that this was coming, which I was going to send directly in appeal but kept it simple based on your replies to it. My main points are:

1. Inadequate signage to form a contract
2. Legal precedent that states that attending to a 'small vicissitude' of short duration, such as a breakdown, is not parking and I'm therefore not liable for a parking charge
3. Legal precedent arguing against their claim that if I had called them, I'd have been allowed to stay longer
4. Dismissal of their comparison to ParkingEye v Beavis as the particulars of the case are different
5. Lack of landowner authority
6. Frustration of contract, with legal precedent
7. That the inflated £160 is not recoverable
8. They haven't allowed a 10 minute grace period, as per section 13.4 of the BPA Code of Practice

I know that I need to prepare this defence and send it back in a certain format. Is this OK online or is it really better to send it via post for correct formatting? Do I send that full defence now or is that saved for witness statements? Or would the witness statements just be transcripts of the above cases, photographs, copies of emails between myself and the landowner etc.

I'd also really like to pursue a counter claim if possible, just to make the point. What are the potential grounds for this and how would I know whether it's something I could pursue?

If you got this far, thank you! Any advice, reassurance or support will be greatly appreciated!