Disputing a ticket - frustration of contract?

Redx

I agree with coupon mad

A short rebuttal based on the one hour free parking as per the landowner agreement , making them aware and it's them who have to prove their case , not you. !!

Save that long statement for your WS for court , if it gets that far

If they come back with signage , tell them to prove both arguments , with pictures , signage and contract

2013 is when my lads case happened , it's what brought me here , my first encounter , and I have taken great pleasure in costing them money ever since

I probably wouldn't be here if they had left my family alone !!!

Snakes_Belly

Vanadesse said:

Snakes_Belly said:

Further to my post above the purpose of a rebuttal letter is to try to see off the claim before it gets to the court stage. The most important document that you will produce is the defence. The witness statement supports the defence with exhibits etc.   

I’m not quite sure what you mean by this. Are you agreeing with CM that I should include less detail and not send what was in my previous post, saving it for if needed?

CM has a lot more experience in advising posters than I have. The rebuttal letter in certain circumstances may see off a claim. With Excel most rebuttal letters are just going through the motions. They ignore them. This is why I suggested that you use it as an mock up for your defence and WS so that you are not wasting your time. 

CM is of the opinion that a rebuttal letter focusing on the issues with the Landowner Contract may just see it off. There is nothing to lose by doing this and everything to gain.

You have still got the information that you need for when/if you prepare a defence.  

Vanadesse

Redx said:

I agree with coupon mad

A short rebuttal based on the one hour free parking as per the landowner agreement , making them aware and it's them who have to prove their case , not you. !!

Save that long statement for your WS for court , if it gets that far

If they come back with signage , tell them to prove both arguments , with pictures , signage and contract

Thanks for the advice. I’ll have a think. I’d still really rather avoid court and have a concern that if they turn around and show that it was within the contractual terms with the landowner, I had missed the opportunity to stop this here. Even if I could schedule it for during a half term, I have two children I’d have to put into a holiday club. It would just be a whole load of hassle I could do with avoiding but I would obviously take that route if needed rather than pay them. 

Redx

I had 2 successes in 2013 , Excel and parking eye , both in the latter part of 2013

Ashton retail park , Ashton under lyne , and crown point North , Denton , both were and are relatives !!  😄😄👍👍

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4827711/success-crown-point-north-versus-pe#latest

Le_Kirk

Vanadesse said:

Redx said:

I agree with coupon mad

A short rebuttal based on the one hour free parking as per the landowner agreement , making them aware and it's them who have to prove their case , not you. !!

Save that long statement for your WS for court , if it gets that far

If they come back with signage , tell them to prove both arguments , with pictures , signage and contract

Thanks for the advice. I’ll have a think. I’d still really rather avoid court and have a concern that if they turn around and show that it was within the contractual terms with the landowner, I had missed the opportunity to stop this here. Even if I could schedule it for during a half term, I have two children I’d have to put into a holiday club. It would just be a whole load of hassle I could do with avoiding but I would obviously take that route if needed rather than pay them. 

After you submit your defence and it is sent to the claimant by CCBC, they have 28 days to decide if they are going to proceed, then the CCBC will send you a DQ in which you can state what dates you are not available.  Just put the whole of the school term in there!  Anyway it is not court nowadays but a (sometimes short) hearing by telephone or video.

MothballsWallet

Redx said:

Hi , seems ok to me and this could also be used as the basis of your witness statement if it got to Manchester court ( a graveyard for parking company claims )

The date issue can be caused due to using the USA system of recording , because several ways exist for these matters , like 9/11 for example

As for employment , you would put dates into your DQ when not available , leaving dates such as half term , rest days and annual leave available for example , so its just a case of red lining schooldays , to obtain a suitable date during the week when you are free for a phone call or video call

Highlighting is mine - @Redx is correct, there are multiple ways of recording dates:

1. Day Month Year (like we normally use)
2. Month Day Year (USA system)
3. Year Month Day (like Japan uses, and is the ISO 8601 standard)

Dates are a RRPITA for us software developers when creating code using tools written by Americans as they always use their own date format - any other format requires some conversions to be used.

I prefer to use the ISO 8601 format to store dates on the computer and then convert that to another format for displaying the date (and I'm not the only programmer to do this).

MothballsWallet

Vanadesse said:

Coupon-mad said:

If Redx has told you that the allowed free parking time here was one hour, as per the landowner contract at the time, personally I would be sending a far shorter reply at first, stating exactly that. 

Nothing else. Flush the truth out. Don’t ask for a copy of the landowner contract as you won’t get one. Just state as a fact that another victim has confirmed it and the only change has been in recent years since their client was removed and replaced by another parking firm, and the free parking time was reduced from 1 hour to 45 minutes. 

The problem is that I cannot be sure what the situation there is, I cannot even confirm who the landowner was at that time. Or at least not so far, I have sent some enquiry emails but Redx had experience in 2012, this was 2016 so it’s very possible but not necessarily the case. 

Have you tried the local authority to see who pays the non-domestic rates for that land? It might be a little tricker to get them to help if you don't live in their region/area.

The Land Registry might be able to help as well, for a fee (I think it's about £3 to request a copy of the title documents).

Vanadesse

MothballsWallet said:

Vanadesse said:

Coupon-mad said:

If Redx has told you that the allowed free parking time here was one hour, as per the landowner contract at the time, personally I would be sending a far shorter reply at first, stating exactly that. 

Nothing else. Flush the truth out. Don’t ask for a copy of the landowner contract as you won’t get one. Just state as a fact that another victim has confirmed it and the only change has been in recent years since their client was removed and replaced by another parking firm, and the free parking time was reduced from 1 hour to 45 minutes. 

The problem is that I cannot be sure what the situation there is, I cannot even confirm who the landowner was at that time. Or at least not so far, I have sent some enquiry emails but Redx had experience in 2012, this was 2016 so it’s very possible but not necessarily the case. 

Have you tried the local authority to see who pays the non-domestic rates for that land? It might be a little tricker to get them to help if you don't live in their region/area.

The Land Registry might be able to help as well, for a fee (I think it's about £3 to request a copy of the title documents).

That’s a really good shout, I’ll give them a call on Monday. Thank you. 

Vanadesse

I’ve just found this dated Dec 2016, naming Harbert Management Corporation as the owners. 

Redx

I bet they bought it back then and contracted with ECP , especially because Excel had gone over to the dark side IPC

Excel lost the Peel centre Stockport , via Peel Holdings , 2 or 3 years ago , it's now Care parking , both car parks are now much fairer !! Both sites are controlled by BPA AOS membership via those new parking contractors

We don't know what the current free period is in the new ECP contract , despite the ECP signs ( it may not match ) , but we definitely know that in 2013 it was the first hour free in the 2013 contract between Excel and Tiger properties !! I don't think it was changed