CCJ. Parking fine sent to old address

Coupon-mad

Olive_j said:

In hindsight, I probably shouldn’t have asked them to set aside and should have argued the original PCN. Which was at Gloucester Quays where they changed parking during covid from 3 to 2 hours and stuck the sticker over. There’s been a case on here recently which was won. 

No, that was not how to argue it at all.  Not once you had a CCJ.

hinking back, I’m sure based on your advice when I initially received the consent order, I asked them to amend & include 13.2 and they refused as they served it to the address given on the DVLA so couldn’t include it. 

I thought that happened and you should not have accepted that.  You seem to have believed them that they 'couldn't' include CPR 13.2 but I told you that it applied all along.  A PPC cannot reasonably rely on an old address and getting it from the DVLA us not enough and does not make their lack of tracing you, OK.  

I don't know what you mean that you don't know how to apply for a set aside under 13.2 with a fresh application? You've already been there, done that with UKCPM haven't you?

It's the same N244 but set aside without consent, now costs £275 as the fees went up (unless you are on a lowish income).  You'd be arguing like you did with UKCPM, for set aside under CPR 13.2 and explaining that you were 'there to be found' with a trace and that the C failed in its duty to do that before filing a claim to an address that they had reason to believe might be wrong, due to no response from their letters.

And that the C knew they had failed to trace you and that the claim was defectively served, yet took advantage of your inexperience by refusing to add CPR 13.2 to the consent Order. Wrongly telling you that they 'couldn't' add 13.2 to the Consent Order, even though it is well known that DVLA data is notoriously unreliable (even the Government know this) and both trade body codes of practice state that parking operators MUST take steps to trace/check details if only holding DVLA data and/or where there has been no response to letters.

IMHO you could and should really go to town, stating that the refusal to add 13.2 to the Consent Order is vexatious and wholly unreasonable conduct and their actions have cost you two application fees and other costs and enormous stress and distress, at a time when you should be enjoying life with a pregnancy and new baby.

Remind me, did you pay them any sum towards 'settling' the PCN or did they agree to consent without settlement, knowing as they did, that the claim was defectively served, yet outright refused to add a line to tell the Judge reading the Order that that's why they'd consented?

ParkingMad

This was VCS' reason for refusing to include CPR 13.2 on the Consent Order -

It's the definition of settlement. We agreed a settlement in relation to the charge albeit we have agreed to cancel the PCN with no further payment. That is the settlement in this instance. We wouldn't however stand the application fee. We have acted accordingly in the matter issuing to the address that DVLA gave to us which should have been up to date information..

In relation to the inclusion of CPR Rule 13.2, this is not applicable as we have not entered judgment incorrectly. The claim forms were served at the last known address we had. 

Olive_j

@Coupon-mad I spoke directly to the land owner, Peel who then spoke to VCS about scrapping the PCN. I didn’t pay anything. I’m not sure if it was paid by Peel or VCS but I was informed that it was then marked as settled via the courts - who I replied to and informed them that it wasn’t paid by myself. It was then marked as settled on Experian.

Olive_j

@Coupon-mad with CPM, the judge simple asked if they’d sent the letters to the address the DVLA had, which they had (despite the 14 month gap & no communication) and then dismissed that point. He said he couldn’t set aside based on 13.2 but said he could go down the any other reasons route and asked how we would defend the original PCN based on the any other good reason CPR (sorry for being so vague, I don’t have the details to hand & now in hospital). This was when the judge agreed to wipe the CCJ & give the opportunity to argue the initial PCN again. 

If I did the same here, new N244 based on 13.2. Could the judge not simply say the same thing as above? They sent it to the address the DVLA had - what would my fallback position be this time around? 

It wouldn’t be about also including how given the opportunity, I’d defend the original PCN, as they agreed to wipe it off so a defence to the PCN isn’t really relevant? So if the judge said no to 13.2, where do I go from there? What back up would I use? 

Thank you & sorry for sounding like an idiot! 

Coupon-mad

The UKCPM Judge was wrong. It is NOT ENOUGH to use an old DVLA address and you could have headed that wrong presumption off with what I already posted.

Olive_j

Do you think there is a way to ask for more than 7 days to complete the application, considering we are in hospital? 

Coupon-mad

Why do you think you only have seven days?  This will be a new application and not an appeal against that judgment.  I did say 'a fresh application'.

Enjoy the new baby time!

Olive_j

Oh yes sorry…. Well that’s good news. Would it matter that so much time has passed since finding out about the CCJ? 

Coupon-mad

No not under CPR 13.2.

But ask yourselves, do you even need this CCJ set aside?  Nothing will happen and if you've already got a mortgage and are not needing credit then isn't there an option to let it sit there marked as satisfied?

Olive_j

Yes I guess so. Mortgage is sorted now (although had to do a transfer with the same lender rather than a cheaper rate elsewhere without the CCJ) but thinking was what if we did wanted credit over the next 6 years…